<p>I'm currently debating between enrolling at either Harvard or Stanford. A little background on myself:</p>
<p>1) I'm a very big math/science guy. I'm thinking about majoring in physics with a focus on electronics and hopefully breaking into industry that way.</p>
<p>2) I'm deeply concerned about the quality of instruction and (meaningful) undergraduate research opportunities within the math and physics departments.</p>
<p>3) I prefer sunny, dry, warm weather. I'm the type of person who would love to wear shorts year round.</p>
<p>Stanford
Pros:
- Awesome weather and laid-back environment
- Seems tech-oriented, which I like + proximity of Silicon Valley
- I feel like I could have a lot of success freshman year in Math 51H and the Physics 60 series
- Quarter system sounds like it would keep me interested by varying courses often</p>
<p>Cons:
- Palo Alto does not seem like a great college town
- I am somewhat doubtful of the importance of Silicon Valley's proximity to an undergraduate student
- Should location/weather truly be a deal breaker? Is it that important when choosing a college?
- Does not have <em>quite</em> the prestige level of Harvard (minor factor)
- I've heard the humanities requirements are particularly annoying here
- I feel I potentially could become a stronger mathematician/physicist at Harvard</p>
<p>Harvard
Pros:
- Math 55 and Physics 16 sound intense and would set me on a path to become a very knowledgeable physicist if I could complete them
- As shameful as it is to say, the Harvard name is quite a draw
- Boston sounds like an awesome place to be as an undergraduate
- Cross-enrolling at MIT always an option</p>
<p>Cons:
- Weather sounds terrible
- I feel because the academics here do seem more intense, if I am not initially successful it would be hard to recover
- I am kind of put off by reports that I have read concerning competitiveness and quality of life amongst Harvard undergraduates
- I am somewhat pessimistic about my chances of standing out
- I would probably have a funner time at Stanford</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for any helpful advice or comments.</p>
<p>I live near Stanford, and think the area is awesome, with lots of stuff to do. If you are into the outdoors, there are world class hikes and cycling that start on campus. And yes, you can wear shorts year round.</p>
<p>From my years working in high tech here in Silicon Valley, a Stanford degree is considered equal or better than a Harvard degree in engineering or science pursuits. So the Harvard name isn’t deal breaker here.</p>
<p>Sferics, I hope you can make it to Stanford for Admit Weekend next week, which should definitely help you resolve this question. As a Stanford student with legacy at Harvard and a couple of other Ivies, I can attest that Stanford offers all the positives of top Ivy education and experience (yes, including comparable prestige, if that’s your thing ), and virtually none of the negatives. I think you’re right that you’d get plenty of challenge from Stanford’s 51-53H series no matter how accomplished a math student you are upon arrival, and the same goes for the Physics 60 series. Academics here are absolutely top-flight across the board and opportunities for research are abundantly available to undergraduates from Day 1, if you’re ready for it. Access to Silicon Valley actually does make a considerable difference to the undergraduate experience for those with interests in tech and entrepreneurship, since lots of companies actively recruit undergrads here for internship opportunities, and often serve as guest lecturers as well. While there are mixed opinions about the humanities requirements here, in my experience they have been very worthwhile and well-taught. (Also, the very small Introductory Seminars with top professors in each department are amazing, and some of them can substitute for general ed requirements.)</p>
<p>As you know, the weather here is pretty great year-round. Though climate shouldn’t be a make-or-break thing, there’s no question it contributes to quality of life and student satisfaction and mood in a very positive way. It encourages physical activity, which in turn encourages health and fitness, and that reduces stress from the intense academic environment. Stanford is on a quarter system, while Harvard is on semesters, so things move very fast here, and you need to stay on top of things consistently. I find that the great weather and all the cycling around and other activity help me sustain high energy levels so that I have time for both intense academics and some purely fun pursuits.</p>
<p>Palo Alto is definitely more suburban than Boston (and even a bit more than Cambridge), but Stanford’s a complete community unto itself in many ways so I don’t have a problem with that. When urban cravings strike, you can take the Cal train to SF, and I’ve done that a few times this year and had a great time, but honestly most people are so busy here with academics and extracurriculars that it can be hard to find time. </p>
<ol>
<li>“Weather sounds terrible”
This is very true but if you like it then you don’t feel it. I never hear my Californian son and his friends complain about the Cambridge weather.</li>
</ol>
<p>The Math 50 Honors series at Stanford is no walk in the park either. Getting through 51H in particular can be equivalent to a full-time job, even for USAMO types.</p>
<p>Okay, I’m biased; I’ll be at Stanford next year. I chose it because I feel it is the best overall complete college experience- weather, people, academics, athletics, everything. And it’s also one of the best in your field, I would say more so than Harvard. So join us at Admit Weekend and see for yourself! Hope you come. Go Card.</p>
<p>My D is a sophomore physics concentrator at H who did Physics 16, but not Math 55. She has found the department to be very collaborative rather than competitive. There are always groups that get together to work on p-sets and help each other understand the work. But you will work hard to keep up as your cohort will be brilliant (same is true for Stanford). You don’t need to do Math 55 to be successful in physics, but if you are capable of succeeding in 55, then you are quite likely to be successful in physics. You didn’t talk about research, but my daughter was able to land a position in a prof’s lab in the second semester of her freshman year. </p>
<p>My D loves H, Cambridge, and Boston. Students at both H and S will primarily stay busy on their respective campuses, but its safe to say that it is easier for the H student to take advantage of Cambridge and Boston than for the S student to do the same with Palo Alto and San Francisco. She grew up in NC and loves the snow since it is different from what she was used to. But I can understand someone else feeling otherwise. </p>
<p>Are you hoping to get a job after your bachelor’s degree? That is the only reason why I think proximity to silicon valley would come into play. Most who want a physics job will pursue a PhD first and your undergrad research opportunities will be on your campus (except maybe during the summers).</p>
<p>A professor who had taught at both Harvard and Stanford was asked to describe the difference between Harvard/Stanford undergrads. He said, “Harvard students are more nakedly ambitious. At Stanford, they’re just more naked.” Which group of people would you prefer to hang out with for 4 years </p>
<p>You’re right about Palo Alto: it’s a boring (but pretty) wealthy suburb. BUT it’s close to amazing places and the school offers enough stuff to keep you entertained/informed. So you won’t be bored. And if you are, head for a weekend in Berkeley. Home of that other, better, school. (Smile: Cal grad speaking.)</p>
<p>The quality of instruction and research opportunities is the same at Stanford and Harvard. Neither will make you a better mathematician/physicist (they’re both ranked at the top).</p>
<p>The humanities requirements are not bad, but you probably don’t have to worry so much about them, since Stanford’s doing an overhaul of the undergraduate curriculum with the goal of reducing the number of requirements.</p>
<p>When I was choosing between Stanford and Harvard (among others), I would not have said that weather is important. But after having been here for a while, I’ve realized how under-valued it is when students are choosing colleges: it not only has an effect on your mood, but it really changes what you’re able to do outside (more important than you think, even if you aren’t active in sports); imagine having to move your graduation ceremony inside at the last minute (HYP have to anticipate this; Stanford never does). It’s also really awesome to wear only a t-shirt, shorts, and flip-flops in mid-December. Stanford isn’t dry, but it doesn’t rain much–the Santa Cruz mountains create a rain shadow so Stanford gets only about 15 inches of rain per year.</p>
<p>Palo Alto isn’t a great college town, but downtown is decent. You’ll also have access to San Francisco, San Jose, and other small cities on the peninsula. </p>
<p>If Silicon Valley is an interest, then being near it is very important. Stanford connects you with internships, jobs, etc. in SV, and there are lots of other programs for those interested in SV–Mayfield Fellowship, various talk series from CEOs in SV, etc.</p>
<p>By the way, doing the 50H and the physics 60 series together would be torture, and you’d likely not do well and/or switch down to the regular series. Either one is intense enough, but together you’d have to eliminate a lot of other stuff in your daily schedule.</p>
), and virtually none of the negatives. I think you’re right that you’d get plenty of challenge from Stanford’s 51-53H series no matter how accomplished a math student you are upon arrival, and the same goes for the Physics 60 series. Academics here are absolutely top-flight across the board and opportunities for research are abundantly available to undergraduates from Day 1, if you’re ready for it. Access to Silicon Valley actually does make a considerable difference to the undergraduate experience for those with interests in tech and entrepreneurship, since lots of companies actively recruit undergrads here for internship opportunities, and often serve as guest lecturers as well. While there are mixed opinions about the humanities requirements here, in my experience they have been very worthwhile and well-taught. (Also, the very small Introductory Seminars with top professors in each department are amazing, and some of them can substitute for general ed requirements.)</p>
Hope you come. Go Card.</p>