S is very interested, and has been accepted into, these two schools: Denison and Trinity University.
I know next to nothing about CS. Can someone with knowledge please take a look at these two sets of course offerings, and offer some input?
Denison’s link: http://denison.edu/courses/all/computer-science
Trinity U’s link: https://inside.trinity.edu/sites/inside.trinity.edu/files/file_attachments/53/trinityu-cosb-2014-15.pdf
(Need to scroll to page 144 of the TU PDF file…)
I appreciate everyone’s assistance.
I can see that Denison starts you in with the foundations of CS and computing and quickly takes you to an advanced level. It seems like the courses combine more topics together. Trinity has more courses because the topics are separated a little. I don’t know if that means that topics will be covered in more depth than Denison’s courses or not. Overall though, I feel that they will offer you the same quality education and the same knowledge of CS. Now, it’s down to fit and financial.
Good luck!
Bump to see if anyone else can take a look at this issue. Thanks!
Both appear to have similar coverage of typical core CS courses (e.g. operating systems, algorithms, networks, databases, compilers, software engineering), though they offer somewhat different electives. You may want to check the schedules to see how frequently each course is offered – once every semester or at least once every year is most convenient, while once every two years may give you only one chance to take each course.
I’m no expert but Trinity seems to have harder courses which is always a plus.
But the difference isn’t anything to take into account realistically. I advice making the choice via price or location or something like that… Maybe visit both and see which community’s more welcoming?
Looking at both curriculums and faculty bios, I’d go with Denison. Denison’s curriculum seemed a bit more theoretical (which I prefer as I find it more engaging). A cursory glance at the faculty information makes me think the Denison faculty’s somewhat stronger and, perhaps, a bit larger.
TU actually has 8 v. 6 faculty at Denison, and CS is an independent department at TU. At Denison, CS is part of the Math department.
We have visited both campuses, and like both very well. We have met both sets of faculty, and were impressed with both.
One other difference is that Denison offers 4-credit classes v. TU offering 3 credit classes. So I think TU’s are slightly more specialized, or have less material combined into each class.
Any other insights greatly appreciated, and thanks for all the input so far. We are much obliged.
Last bump for the weekend. Thanks for the comments so far!
@ColdinMinny
I think the choice is obvious. Specialized courses = better employment chances.
Few college CS programs these days seem to deviate very much from curriculum guidelines prescribed by ACM - for accreditation, I suppose. But I also notice (similar to fragbot’s observation above) that TU’s offerings tend to be more practical vs Denison’s, e.g., CSCI-3345 Web Application Design.
Disagree completely. When hiring junior or senior staff, I’m not generally looking for a strict technology fit. We’re looking for articulate, quantitatively smart and personality fit.
@fragbot
Yeah but when I’m hiring a software engineer, I rather have him taken advanced software eng courses rather than just about everything but at elementary-intermediate levels. Plus Denison is way too theoretical like many have pointed out…
Specialized course work may help with employment in that specific area, but strong foundational course work (including most of the more advanced courses listed in reply #3) will allow one to better handle changing technologies and difficult problems that will require continuing self-education through one’s career. The specialized course work should be looked at as electives to add in addition to the core advanced courses in the major whose concepts are used widely in the development of computers and their software.
dudefromeurope, didn’t you post elsewhere that you’re currently a student, so we could assume you’re not hiring anybody?
And if you looked at Denison’s classes, you can’t have failed to notice that it’s not “just about everything at elementary-intermediate levels”.
I strongly agree with UCBalumnus that the specialized coursework should be added to the core advanced courses only, with a broad knowledge in the major - plus excellent writing and communication skills.
@MYOS1634
Yes I am and I was also applying to Denison but I’m just saying what I’ve heard from dozens of employers I’ve contacted about what they want from their employees. The answer was actual practical skills. They don’t need no philosophers and researchers, they want people who can do specific tasks well. Denison may be better for grad school but for job? Don’t think so.
@dudefromeurope, I think you’ll find from the CS grads on here (who are actually in a position to hire, BTW), that we care more about a solid grounding in the fundamentals rather than fads. A CS curriculum heavy on theory will in general inspire respect from CS majors. Who are these employers who you have contacted? Did you talk to CS grads or non-CS grads?
Agreeing with @PurpleTitan. We don’t look from practical skills* when we hire junior-level staff (my teams hire test , software, and program management staff exclusively). We’re looking for people well-grounded in the foundational knowledge in the profession as well as the ability to have a collaborative** discussion. Put another way, if I have a candidate with “practical web experience” in PHP or someone who wrote, say, a theorem prover in Haskell, SML or Scheme, I’m far more interested in the latter.
Writing this, it occurs to me that there might be a split here between people who hire for product development (best), hiring for staff in the, often outsourced, IT department (not great), and hiring for the outsourcing vendor (least common denominator body shop).
*not that they can’t be a small differentiator for equal candidates. However, better quantitative or verbal aptitude will easily overshadow those. Using a trivial example, I’d rather hire someone who could tell me the fundamental data structure and algorithm underlying Make than someone who knows how to write a Makefile.
**looking at some of my strongest employees, two of them were music majors before switching/adding a technical degree and another was a theater major who went to a Top5 CS program for a funded PhD and left with his Masters.
@PurpleTitan
Yes I know that having broad knowledge / skill set is more respected. Also, keep in mind that I have chosen liberal arts colleges for myself. But, I did that because I’m going to get a Master’s. I believe that you should build general knowledge during Bachelor’s and specialize during Master’s. But, I understand that not everyone has the privilege to study for that long and if you immediately have to find work after Bachelor’s, narrow knowledge will help you land that first job.
I talked to various companies in my country, some banks even (I’m not from US). They probably had their business degrees though. I understand where you’re coming from but it’s easier to find work when you know pretty much everything about Databases and earned your certificates and all in that field, than when you’re fresh out the college with a general theoretical CS knowledge. And even though an employer who is CS gradate may prefer your theoretical degree, majority of the employers will not know much about CS and will look for applied / narrow degrees. At least that’s what I gathered after asking around where I’m from.
Of course, this debate could go on for ages. This is just my opinion. As I see, some people here also agree with me, but many don’t. In truth both unis are good and none will hurt the student’s future. OP should just choose the one that majority recommends. My vote still goes to Trinity though.
@MYOS1634 Do you have an opinion on the relative strength of the two CS curriculums? You sound like a knowledgeable resource on this. Thanks!
@dudefromeurope, actually, I see few CS grads in the US agreeing with you.
Granted, where you are from, there may be few CS majors (or few CS majors from good programs). This may differ by country, but in the US, for the positions most desired by CS majors, hiring will be done by CS grads (or those with that mindset).
Further granted, maybe your goal is just to work in IT somewhere, though if that’s the case, you don’t actually need a CS degree; just pick up those certificates you mentioned.
BTW, for CS in the US, people don’t really care if you pick up a masters in CS or not if you already have a bachelors in CS. The thinking generally is that someone who went through a good CS bachelors program should have already picked up all he/she needs to know to succeed. Maybe it’s different in your country.