CS schools for the B+ Student? Would love some input on our list.

Parents Forum
1

We are entering the home stretch of college searches for our kids, this is our 4th and final, and each one is unique that’s for sure! Our current junior wants to study CS and I’m trying to gauge how realistic his list is, given the popularity of the major and absence of hooks.

He’s had a rough jr year, recently diagnosed with mild ASD and Executive Functioning disorder. If Aspergers were still a diagnoses that might have been the diagnoses but at present it’s just a spectrum diagnoses as the EF isn’t an official disorder. Which, unfortunately, on paper just looks like smart but lazy. We do have a 504 and some accommodations and are turning the tide with a variety of outside support services but it’s not what one wants to see on the junior year transcript. He does have an outside chance of “fixing” the transcript to some degree if he scores well enough on the AP Physics test but we can’t count on that (new Physics teacher so no test result history at all). The transcript does include some C’s (mostly french and history) and a dreaded D+ in Physics last semester.

Stats are:

3.3 UW, 3.6 W (we do not weight or rank though)

33 ACT

Highest possible rigor, will have 4 honors classes and 9.5 AP’s after senior year. The .5 is due to dropping down to regular USH for this current semester, which was absolutely the right call and is reflected positively in this grades this quarter which is all A’s and B’s.

EC’s: Will have 4 years of every possible band offered (jazz, marching, pep, concert/wind ensemble). Founded a club (philosophy), Boy Scouts through Life Rank (will not obtain Eagle), 4 years of XC, 1 of track. Mission trip stuff. Volunteer camp counselor for 2 summers.

Pending: Outside shot at a district CS internship and hopes to get a job this summer.

So basically a under performing white boy who wants the most popular major and has pretty standard vanilla EC’s (and none are CS so far). Should have decent LOR’s and will likely write decent essays. I realize the odds are not in his favor.

We believe that a co op program could be extremely beneficial given his diagnoses. He tests well but has a history of not doing or turning in HW. Obviously that can’t happen in college and we seem to be moving in the right direction. Also looking at schools known to have strong support services.

In state for WA and WUE schools are an option. As he is lopsided I am having a hard time gauging his chances at anything outside of some of our our known local results. Opinions on relative safety/match/reach is appreciated. He is 75th% on almost all of these schools for ACT but 50th or lower for GPA. RIT does not publish GPA which is most unhelpful!

[ul][]Drexel - match
[]Rochester Institute of Technology - match/low reach
[]Macalester - high reach
[]Northern Arizona - safety (auto admit, full WUE)
[]University of Washington-Bothell - safety (safety is based on our HS naviance, it’s a match on paper)
[]Seattle University - safety (safety is based on our HS track records, it’s a match on paper)
[]Santa Clara University - reach/high reach
[]Colorado State - match (possibly safety based on our HS naviance) would be full WUE eligible
[]University of Washington-Seattle - reach for CS. Based on HS naviance (which has a LOT of data) maybe not for other majors but CS seems a high reach.
[]Western Washington University - safety (based on our HS naviance, it’s a match on paper)[/ul]
It’s a weird mix of a list I know. There are different reasons for each on the list. We will be full pay and have a threshold we’d like to stay under and so are chasing merit. S19 would like urban. A few (Santa Clara and CSU) are near family. Some he might get in but the $ may not be quite there. He may have a chance at the honors college at NAU.

I don’t know how much it impacts things but from a rigor standpoint he has/will have

Honors: English 9, English 10, Biology, Chemistry
AP: World History, US History (1 semester), Calc AB, Calc BC, Computer Science A, English Language, English Literature, Environmental Science, Micro/Macro.

He may take a CS summer course at UW Bothell or the local CC

Thoughts?

2

Have you considered finding schools that will support his academic needs, and working backward from there? For example, Denver University has a program (must apply and there is a fee) that matches students up with an academic counselor that keeps them on track with assignments, etc. Proper support systems might make a bigger difference in his success than the pedigree of the school. I believe firmly that, outside of a top 20 school or a bottom school, a student’s success is more important than the name on the diploma. I don’t have a student at DU but live in Denver and am familiar with the school. They are generous with financial aid, people love this program, and they seem to be moving up in the academic world. I am sure other schools have similar opportunities.

3

Have you thought about the University of Utah? My D18 is heading there for dance (turning down Berkeley and UCLA). We loved the location and facilities, especially in the Honors College. And you can get instate tuition after the first year (if you stay for the summer), so merit aid is not strictly necessary (although it is available).

4

Similarly, the U. of Arizona has the SALT Center (Strategic Alternative Learning Techniques). They’re not part of WUE but they do have merit aid.

5

@mom2thrie

Yes. The first 2 on the list definitely have the support and academics he needs. A co op program in particular will aid on the social side. He is not a student that presents as having autism, but rather as a happy/content kid who is solo most of the time but well adjusted. He contributes in class, etc, it’s more a matter of the right system and routine for the work he finds boring and unnecessary. We are all confident that with the right support and coaching now, and a system in place, he has the ability to do quite well.

The others in varying degrees, it has been researched at all. If you look at the list we aren’t really concerned with prestige at all, those that might have some are on for other reasons UW is our flagship, Santa Clara has the support and academics and is near family, etc… 3 of the schools on the list would have the opportunity to live at home although we would only likely exercise it at one. Several of the safeties are on there because they will be affordable.

We are full pay, DU would not at all be an option. We need to look for merit or assume full pay. FA if any, at best, would only be 2 years.

6

Thanks all, I was really looking for input on the chances on the current list, not necessarily other ideas. We’ve researched things pretty much to death in terms of major, environment, support and cost. I do appreciate it though.

@Twoin18 S19 would not consider Utah. In general I am not a fan of a large school for him and with the gpa, at most schools honors college is unlikely.

@Curiosa Same issue with large schools as in my previous comment, I do think he might drown. Pretty easy for him to fly under the radar, he’s been doing it his whole life. Not a single teacher sees him as struggling. He is very opposed to heat, Flagstaff is ok whether wise but that’s about it and Santa Clara is Bay Area.

7

so can I ask the obvious- if he’s got no CS EC’s why is he sure he wants to study CS?

8

@blossom

We don’t offer much in the way of CS EC’s. None of the kids that go on to major in it from our school have much in the way of CS EC’s and I know several of them quite well. The one semi related club that does exist is far more robotics focused. He is taking AP CS right now and loves it. We hope he can make the internship happen but we will see.

9

Your description of your son looks really familiar, because it’s like reading a description of my own. (Too bad they aren’t in the same high school; they’d probably get along great.) We’ve decided to go the LAC route for ours, given our experience with small-school professors who make it difficult for kids to quietly fall behind in class and not turn in homework. (My husband, who teaches at an LAC, has been known to call a student’s cell phone from class to ask why they aren’t in their seat and host 9pm study sessions for students who need extra help.) Most of the schools on your list are bigger universities, but given that you have Macalester on there, I wonder if there are other LACs in your area that might also be worth considering. Going down a tier could bring good merit awards.

10

With that ACT he might get merit at Chapman University and Trinity University (TX) if he applies EA. The CS programs are small, but good quality. He will probably get the attention he needs at those universities.

11

@kab2kab yes, I had hoped to have other LAC’s on there for exactly that reason, just can’t really find one that fits his criteria. That said, his HS has 1400 and he’s pretty invisible. Good kid, tests well, keeps quiet.

The challenge we’ve had is finding ones that fit our budget with merit, and have more than 4 CS faculty. Small is good but… We did tour Redlands which I thought could be a solid option but it’s too warm weather wise. UPS, here locally, if stronger in CS would be nice (but may not offer enough $$) but most of the others around here aren’t going to offer enough merit at his stats to work financially or are a reach or he’s not comfortable with the location (i.e Willamette and Whitman get a no on locations, Lewis & Clark gets a no on price). One of the other issues with the LAC’s is the higher amount of gen ed. When he is challenged and engaged he does much better and something like 2 more years of a FL as many require, could be an issue in my mind. He says it isn’t but his transcript says otherwise.

Hence Seattle U. Which checks a lot of the boxes. He’s nixed U of Portland. I’d like him to consider Pacific Lutheran but he will not so…

He absolutely fell in love with Mac (conceptually, he’s not visited) and really connected with the AO but it’s a reach in every way.

We strongly suspect that he would find a lot of his “tribe” at Drexel and RIT. Less general ed and more major classes with higher interest, combined with co op seems a very good option for him.

Size wise they break out like this. So more mid sized than “large”. I’m only ok with NAU if it’s honors (to make it small) and he’s got a strong mentor who is a freshman there and as an auto admit it’s a true safety.

Drexel 15,499
Rochester Institute of Technology 13,384
Macalester 2,146
Northern Arizona 22,134
University of Washington-Bothell 5,112
Seattle University 4,776
Santa Clara University 5,438
Colorado State 25,177
University of Washington-Seattle Campus 30,933
Western Washington University 14,592

I do not think UW is a good fit, neither does he but he wants to apply. UWB is small but the class sizes are bigger than he’d like. But in that event he’d live at home so, there would be that safety net. WWU is also likely too big just based n their structure, hence it being last on the list. CSU well, CSU gives him the state school option if we decide it’s the right thing after all, near lots of family, strong CS and fits the budget. But at #8 out of 10 it’s obviously not a front runner.

So really, in terms of size and class ratio the “best fit” list really looks like this (not necessarily in this order but maybe). But out of those, only one (Seattle U) is what I’d consider an admissions safety and it might not be a financial one (should but you never know!). The others on the list are truly back up plans for the most part.

Macalester
Seattle University
Drexel
Rochester Institute of Technology
Santa Clara University

So, if you have an urban LAC that has more than 4 CS faculty and can come in under 40K (preferably lower but I am realistic at his stats) we are open to ideas! Oh and isn’t in a warm weather area.

12

@stardustmom he might get merit at Chapman but maybe not enough. It is too warm though for him, same issue with Texas in general. He also has some concerns with the demographics at Chapman based on input from kids we know that have gone there. It is likely unfair and skewed but he won’t consider it.

13

Of your 5 top schools, I would not expect great merit from Santa Clara or Macalester. Not sure about RIT but Drexel looks like a good fit merit wise. Check out the official results threads for the different colleges here and often they will report stats and merit amounts so you can get a better gauge. When you say under 40K is this for tuition only or total COA?

If you’re open to expanding the list. Here are some mid-size universities in more urban areas that have merit potential:

Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ) -3,115
University of Tulsa (OK) - 3,406
Worcester Polytechnic (MA) - 4,432
Case Western (OH) - 5,152
St. Louis Univ (MO) - 7,454

Also, I know you’ve ruled out small and rural but I think College of Wooster or St. Olaf’s would be a good fit for your son otherwise and they do give good merit.

14

University of Dayton or Gonzaga? Anywhere with engineering will have strong CS. Do you have other children going to college in the next few years? If yes, cost of 4 year education might decrease as more kids enter school and you potentially qualify for higher financial aid.

15

RIT sounds like a really good option. You might also look into UMBC, smaller state school with a lot of support and close to NSA.

16

College of Wooster & St. Olaf were going to be my suggestions, too, except for the “urban” part. Wooster has 5 CS profs listed on their website. St. Olaf lists 6, though with 2 also teaching in other departments (psych & math). Both campuses have a reputation for happy students who are welcoming to quirky kids, though both also have GenEd requirements (though Wooster seems to let you use AP credits for some of them). Foreign language requirement is 2nd semester level at Wooster, but 4th at St. Olaf (!), if that’s a dealbreaker for your son.

Another idea would be Kalamazoo College, which is in a mid-size city. There are no GenEd requirements, but they have a 3rd quarter-level (1 year) foreign language requirement. They only have 3 profs dedicated to CS, but 2 additional physics profs who also teach in the department. K-College is known for their strength in the sciences and sending a high percentage of kids onto grad school. Students are also allowed to take classes at Western Michigan University (which is practically next door) if there is something they offer that K doesn’t.

Wooster and Kalamazoo are in my son’s top 3 right now, along with Beloit. We’ve toured all three campuses, but haven’t had a chance to talk in detail with the Beloit CS faculty yet. We’ve been told it’s a pretty small major there, but the fit seems absolutely perfect, so we’re planning to do more targeted digging on their STEM stuff this fall. (A small major isn’t a complete dealbreaker for me, since I’m more concerned about social fit and would be happy to have him get lots of personalized attention, assuming the rigor is there.) We did get a special Math/CS tour at Wooster when we were there, though, and everyone was super nice, with professors coming out of their offices to say hello and ask my son lots of questions about his programming experience, etc. We’re hoping/expecting to get good merit at all three schools.

17

CSE at SCU is much harder to get into than the school overall. The reputation of their CSE program is strong and feeding into a lucrative SV job market so the kids applying in the last few years have really upped the game there. And I would not count on any signifncant merit at SCU, it has a long standing reputation of being low, and even harder to get in competitive CSE. But opportunities out of there are excellent. We have been super impressed with program along with the personal attention and unique opportunities my student has received there.

18

@3andme

Mac in particular is a reach in every way and he is well aware. He is allowed one huge financial reach and it’s been made clear that the chances of affordability even if he got in is very very low. We’ve spent plenty of time on the numbers. Santa Clara has a much better chance on the affordability scale but not on admissions.

Drexel seems to pencil well and be a solid shot on admissions. Agreed that RIT is less so although it appears he will get his HS nomination for their junior nomination scholarship (which doesn’t garuntee admission but can’t hurt).

I’ve got a pretty solid feel for merit at all, as well as FA between NPC, CDS, results threads which includes the 2017 3.0 -3.4 master results list (I’m the OP lol).

My rule has been that there has to be a chance a school can come in at or under 40k to be on the list. And yes that’s all in (ideally). There is some wiggle room. I also require at least one affordable in state option, one admissions safety and one that is both an admissions and financial safety. His list has those, they just aren’t necessarily the top choices.

I would have to relook at our data but if memory serves

Stevens was a reach in both categories (NPC @ 54) and since we have Mac already, I wasn’t adding more.

Tulsa he wouldn’t consider.

WPI we looked hard at, he just likes RIT a lot better and it seems a better fit and more achievable. However if he decides to add WPI back in that will be ok.

Case Western, I swear I’ve looked at it a few times and there is a reason it’s not on the list but I don’t recall why so will relook. If it’s a profile school that doesn’t allow a waiver that’s a deal killer lol. We have good documentation for a waiver.

St Louis. I don’t know that I’ve looked. More south than he’d like but with a quick NPC.

Wooster is too rural and I’ve tried on St Olaf before but that’s worth revisiting.

Thanks!

19

@mom2thrie

We are the reverse. S19 is our 4th and we are a full pay family who can’t afford full pay for 4! The 40k cap (ish) keeps the kids relatively consistent. They have hit it in different ways (School choice, scholarships, work contributions etc) and while it is about the best fit we do have a budget.

That said there is probably wiggle room years 3 and 4 if we had to, to a point and for the right school/reason. Years 3 and 4 (2022 and 2023) will be the first year of only one college tuition since 2014!

I will peek at Dayton. He won’t consider Gonzaga. Seattle kids are funny about Gonzaga, it’s either a top choice or no way (location). Seattle U does fill most of what Gonzaga does with an easier admit and likely more $. I think he’d do well there though.

It doesn’t hurt that my dad used to teach there (Seattle U). We have a tour in a couple of weeks and you never know, it he likes it as much as I hope he will it might open him up to more Jesuit schools. Which I think are a good fit.

20

@Mom24boys

We did look hard at UMBC. Admissions looked like reach and the financials were not as compelling as a result. I’d have to pull my data but S and I discussed it quite a bit.

I wish RIT had EA. I think it’s a very good fit but we aren’t comfortable with ED. Luckily it isn’t a huge edge comparatively at least according to the CDS. Which of course doesn’t break it down by major.