<p>Why do they ask for your retirement accounts? I thought they weren't included in the calculation of how much aid you need.</p>
<p>There's no way to enter negative numbers for income? So how are you supposed to enter it -- as a zero (then if they have questions they'll review tax returns)?</p>
<p>Those rules that you’ve heard-- that retirement and primary residence equity don’t count-- really only refer to Fafsa. In general, schools can ask whatever they want and use it how they want for their own funds. So, on the Profile which is used to distribute a school’s own funds, you may encounter questions about retirement funds, home equity, cars owned,etc. Colleges don’t generally revel how they use that information but you could always Email them and ask.</p>
<p>OP, Just like on taxes you can’t enter negative numbers for income.</p>
<p>^??? You may not have had the misfortune to enter negative numbers for income, but you can definitely file a 1040 with a loss (negative income). Maybe it was confusing the way I asked the question.</p>
<p>^^Income from work is on one line of a 1040, gains and losses that come from schedules are on another line and adjusted gross income is on a yet another line and then there are lines for dividends, interest, pension money, unemployment, etc. So I supposed it would be possible to have zero for an adjusted gross income, the chances are that there are assets of value that throw off the gains (or losses). It is entirely possible not to have any income, but then be prepared to verify - some sort of money is needed to buy feed and shelter. If none of that applies then chances are the family could file the EZ form…and not the 1040.</p>
<p>One theory about why they want retirement fund info is to see if (in their opinion) you have put an excessive amount of money in them to shield it. Conversely, if the amount is too small, they might make an allowance for it or treat some other assets as retirement assets.</p>
<p>No one knows for sure, and I think it is unlikely the college will tell you.</p>
<p>But if they do, let us know, this question comes up all the time.</p>
<p>Negative income - once you get to line 43 (“Taxable Income”) on the 1040, you can’t enter a number less than zero. But there are lines along the way that can have a negative number - 12, 13, 14, 17 18.</p>
<p>^thank notrichenough – that’s my name too! :)</p>
<p>I guess my situation is atypical of the kind encountered here. Both me and H are self-employed; he shows a loss on Schedule C; I show a small income via K1 which shows up on Schedule E. We have no wages/salary/tip income. We show an AGI but his income is negative; mine is positive. Which is why I asked the question about entering negative income on the profile (FAFSA allows entering negative income).</p>
<p>I guess the question is moot because if they ask for tax returns, IRS filings will show exactly what I tried to enter – I show positive income, H shows loss, AGI is reduced by his loss.</p>
<p>If you are self employed, be prepared for those negatives to be changed to positives. Most PROFILE schools will disallow deductions for business and do other neat tricks that will show up Glinda the Good Witch in goodies. Assets where you never thought there were any. </p>
<p>Most schools will not count retirement funds towards assets unless they are considered way high, but won’t tell you what that is. I’ve known folks with some hefty amount that have not been zapped by some of the more popular PROFILE schools in that their kids did get aid. BC frankly uses them, but even they have given families with big qualified accounts aid. The self employed is what concerns me more. Have you already gotten an estimated package? Is this for next year?</p>
<p>Your name is Not Rich Enough? ;)</p>
<p>My name isn’t Rich, my handle is a statement about my financial situation with regards to colleges. 
</p>
<p>Sorry – should have said I feel notrichenough!</p>
<p>My daughter is a college sophomore. I’ve filled out Profile before but I don’t remember all the questions they’re now asking (maybe I forgot; maybe they added some questions).</p>
<p>I submitted FAFSA (which said EFC = zero) and maybe D will get a Pell Grant in addition to the Stafford loans.</p>
<p>I know financial aid counselors add back things to self-employed income. 2012 was so bad I’m hoping for some increase in aid but wouldn’t be surprised if I got nothing from Emory.</p>
<p>The CSS profile has addendums that some schools include and others do not. The question regarding retirement accounts may be in one of those addendum sections and Emory has added that addendum this year to their requirements. That is just a guess though. The question has definitely been there for at least 3 years, but I don’t recall if it was in an addendum section or not.</p>
<p>Yes, she will get PELL. The federal aid entitlements will be based on EFC as well as eligibility for any discretional federal goodies, though the school may have its own rule on how to distribute therm. She will also be allowed to borrow $6500 as a sophomore with some of it subsidized.</p>
<p>Was your DD at Emory before? If you did all right with the business info with them, it might be okay this year, especially since things are not doing as well. Schools treat these things in different ways.</p>
<p>Yes, she’s been at Emory since freshman year. My income has been dropping steadily (but this year’s drop was dramatic). The reason I’m not too hopeful is because my fin aid counselor basically said last year “you must have other assets you’re not disclosing.” Nope, sorry. I don’t, and I’m not lying either.</p>
<p>This is such a lovely process. </p>
<p>Thanks everyone for the tips and advice. I’ll let you know if I’m pleasantly surprised.</p>
<p>Did you get a good financial aid package from Emory last year?</p>
<p>No. Freshman year: $5500 in Stafford loans and eligible for work study. Sophomore year: $6500 in Stafford loans and eligible for work study. Nothing else.</p>
<p>It’s funny, because I post on the Emory forum too, and a kid there said they got all this aid and their family make $150,000/year (which is way more than I make). I guess they have no assets? It’s amazing to me how variable (or subjective) the award process is.</p>
<p>The financial aid process is income driven. In your case, even with low or negative income, owning a business, some of those write off for tax purposes get added back in. Like most of them. So you have no need according to PROFILE. If you are truly at zero or below this year, your DD may qualify for a PELL grant since the eligiblity for that and the Staffords and work study come from the FAFSA EFC,not PROFILE’s family contribution numbers. With a zero EFC, your DD can get about $5600 in PELL grant.</p>