<p>re: “the book is over 10 years old” – both of Pope’s books (CTCL and “Looking Beyond the Ivy League”) have had revised editions come out within the past few years.
CTCL was pretty much the same, although IIRC Grinnell was dropped from the book. I think one or two others were dropped and a couple of new ones added to the book.</p>
<p>Good suggestion- menloparkmom</p>
<p>Ursinus – For what it’s worth, my son has a friend there who is a total lower-Manhattan hipster. I couldn’t believe he would survive, much less thrive, at a preppie-ish LAC in the far burbs like this, but he has thrived plenty. This is intended to be a recommendation</p>
<p>Hampshire has worked for kids we know, too. It’s not visually impressive; it was built at the wrong time. That matters a lot on a short visit, and a lot less in a college career.</p>
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<p>I felt that CTCL was one of the best books my son read when we were starting his college search, going through the process for the first time, 10 years ago. </p>
<p>HOWEVER, the value of CTCL to us was in the descriptions of the college environments and offerings, not in the specific colleges themselves. It opened up our eyes as to what to look for outside of rankings or raw statistics – it told us what a good college could be, and gave us an idea of the types of programs or approaches we might be interested. </p>
<p>Of the actual colleges listed, there were only two or three that would have been good fits for my son – I think he applied to one. But we had a fresh perspective when we looked at others – and my son certainly did apply to quite a few colleges that were special in their own way.</p>
<p>There are at least half a dozen LAC’s in California that have the same qualities that a CTCL reader might look for… but then again, many of the CTCL colleges are quite different from one another, so the first step would be to isolate which qualities that your son finds attractive. But it would be a huge mistake for you to ignore colleges simply because they weren’t in the small group that Loren Pope chose to profile. (Keep in mind that Mr. Pope died in 2008 – though the CTCL foundation lives on, its not so clear whether there even exists a process for evaluation and inclusion of other colleges on their list in the future.)</p>
<p>If your kid is interested in psychology, Clark U. has one of the best undergraduate programs in the country. I admit to being biased-I’m a Clark alum and I majored in psychology as an undergraduate. I’m a physician; Clark also has an excellent pre-med program. My daughter just got accepted early decision and plans to major in psychology. We are very pleased that she made Clark her first choice. Clark has the advantage of being an LAC embedded in a small research university (there are about 900 graduate students). Undergraduates have tremendous opportunities to get involved in research early on. Clark has an academic “Spree Day” that allowes undergraduates to present their research. Clark has always been a CTCL school, even before Loren Pope wrote about it.</p>
<p>Which California colleges are like CTCLs? Are there any that are not in Southern California?</p>
<p>“Which California colleges are like CTCLs? Are there any that are not in Southern California?”</p>
<p>I believe that Mills College (all women’s undergraduate) in Oakland is definitely a CTCL-like school. [Mills</a> College for Women, Coed Graduate Programs, California college](<a href=“http://www.mills.edu%5DMills”>http://www.mills.edu) It has an excellent academic reputation.</p>
<p>In my opinion the CTCL colleges are wildly different. I’m familiar with most of othe midwest ones and while they all have in common that they are in general nuturing, have strong academics, and take B+ students they are different and individual colleges appeal to different kinds of kids. Also people “look” at colleges through different lenses. My advice is to use those as a starting point. When you find one that you like, then ask the question: Schools like XXXXX? because there are equally wonderful schools that have not made it into the CTCL books and regions of the country that are not as well represented.</p>
<p>ClarkAlum,
I think we will visit Clark when it warms up and we head up north for another round of tours- everything looks better in the spring. Is it a nice campus? One of the issues is his older S&B went to much larger schools, so that is the type of campus he is expecting to see. But he will do much better in a smaller environment like his high school where he has great relationships with all his teachers. Did you go into their PHD program or did you go onto Med school from Clark? It does not look like they have a huge amount of merit. He has ok test scores so far- 1360 hoping to do better, but his gpa is 87 where the top student is 94 unweighted at his school- 2 APs/ 2 Honors - I’m not sure what that is going to even transfer to- it could be anywhere from a 3.1 to 3.5.</p>
<p>The campus is small and beautiful, self-contained, and as my daughter describes it, “cozy.” The big knock on Clark is that it is in Worcester, about 50 miles west of Boston. The campus is located in a lousy part of Worcester, the Main South area. [This is no different than many other wonderful schools, like Trinity (Hartford), Johns Hopkins, or Yale]. Clark has done some wonderful work with the Main Line community for which it has received national attention [Clark</a> in the Community ~ Clark University](<a href=“http://www.clarku.edu/community.cfm]Clark”>http://www.clarku.edu/community.cfm) </p>
<p>The campus is an “open campus,” meaning it is not walled and gated shut from the community. While there have been concerns about security, the school has a top notch security force (campus security have the rights and privileges of the Worcester PD), and I feel that my daughter will be very safe. Forty years ago when I attended Clark, the relationship with the community was not as good, yet I never had a single episode where my safety was compromised. Worcester is not for everyone, but I actually like the city, and there are urban attractions like restaurants, shopping and cultural activites that are available to Clark students. Clark also is part of the Worcester College Consortium [Homepage</a> | Colleges of Worcester Consortium (COWC)](<a href=“College Admissions News”>http://www.cowc.org/) of 13 colleges (including Holy Cross and Worcester Polytech) where students can take classes. Downtown Boston is an hour’s drive.</p>
<p>Although Clark is back to being a USN&WR top 100 university, it has been consistently underrated. I am convinced if it were in a bedroom community of Boston, like Brandeis in Waltham, or Tufts in Medford, it would be ranked significantly higher. The classes are small, and faculty and students establish very close relationships.</p>
<p>I went straight to medical school from college. Clark offers a unique “Fifth Year Free” masters degree with free tuition if students are able to maintain a B+ GPA in their undergraduate program. [Graduate</a> Admissions ~ Clark University](<a href=“Accelerated B.A./Master's Programs | Clark University”>Accelerated B.A./Master's Programs | Clark University)</p>
<p>Actually Clark is a good merit scholarship school. I believe that well over 70 percent of students receive financial aid<br>
[Apply</a> for Financial Assistance - US Residents ~ Current Students ~ Clark University](<a href=“http://www.clarku.edu/admissions/financialaid/apply/prospective/aidgrid.cfm]Apply”>http://www.clarku.edu/admissions/financialaid/apply/prospective/aidgrid.cfm)</p>
<p>We’ll be on campus for an early admission orientation program in two weeks. Although I was hoping that my daughter would make Tufts her first choice, she didn’t like the school, and she fell in love with Clark. It’s interesting to me how kids either “get” the “Clark Mystique” or don’t.</p>
<p>Beloit is a school with good merit money. I agree that Pope’s choices are just a place to start.</p>
<p>Wheaton is a school you might look at too.</p>
<p>Thanks for the ideas. A friend from CA just critiqued our CA choices for next weeks tour, ugh. It’s different when you live there I think. He’s younger, but schools change over time. Two of the colleges in our town I never thought were great and now OOS-ers clamor to get in. One was a total commuter school and didn’t have any dorms- now it’s $48k. Of course, they are all $48K now. Well as a JR, we’ve got some time. And the net will be wide. It’s just so depressing sometimes, I was just lamenting to my oldest - 14 yr difference; she had almost the exact same stats, same SAT, gpa, high school and she got into Tufts and Cornell among others. My other S quote from last weekend as he was trying to help with SAT studying was “Can he go to a college I’ve heard of”?</p>
<p>CTCL was pretty much my bible with DS#1 too. I found it a fascinating read, and our eventual “schools to visit” list was heavily waited from the book (although not exclusively). I agree it’s a great place to start, and makes the case of a smaller environment well. I think Mr. Pope would have been the first to say of course it’s not an exhaustive list of lesser-known schools that do a good job with their students.</p>
<p>We visited perhaps six of them, applied to four (plus others). They are very different in character/feel, just as any list of schools would be. (E.g., DS didn’t belong at Hampshire or Guilford any more than he would at Enormous State U.) </p>
<p>(FWIW, we’re just starting with DS#2, current hs junior. I still believe in the CTCL school philosophy but this kid will have few if any of them on his visit list.)</p>
<p>Keep in mind Idinct that your son does have one advantage amongst the changes in college admissions since your daughter’s time, that being that he is sought after for being male at many colleges. I believe the average discrepancy now is around 60/40 female to male ratio. For instance, last year Vassar accepted 21% of their female applicants and 34% of male applicants.</p>
<p>Still kind of depressing for him that he has almost the exact same stats as D and the ivy isn’t even a reach anymore. Oh well, at least he has the male thing going.</p>