<p>anyone know the stats on CU undergrads that continue their grad school work at columbia? anyone on here plan on doing just that? my friend who graduated with a 3.6 was turned down at the law school (ended up going to fordham) and said that CU doesnt really like to accept its own undergrads because they know how lax the grading is... just wondering how true his theory is? it does seem to be that more undergrads do the obama route- CU to harvard/some other IVY grad instead of staying at CU...</p>
<p>Between 75-90 units at GS you can apply for Columbia’s MBA program and finish in a year. I might try for this when the time comes, we’ll see.</p>
<p>yes i was considering that as well… except I asked the admissions counselor what the acceptance was for that- very low he said. good luck</p>
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<p>His theory is utter BS. Given that he’s going to Fordham for law school, he was likely rejected not only from Columbia Law but from a number of other good law schools. He must have crappy LSAT score or something. </p>
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<p>What the hell is “the obama route” -did you just make that up? Most people go to the best grad/professional program they can get into. The CU undergrads who can go to Yale Law, Harvard Med, Wharton/Harvard Biz, etc. And if they can’t get into Harvard and Yale Law, they’ll probably go to Columbia Law. And I know lots of CU undergraduates who end up going to crappy law schools you probably have never heard of, most likely because they couldn’t have gotten into one that you had heard of.</p>
<p>is a 170 a bad LSAT? what about a perfect 1600 on the SAT? </p>
<p>no, “obama route” is a phrase in the 2009 oxford… jesus, my point being I see alot of notable CU undergrads attending other Ivies for grad and wondering why they dont stay at Columbia. Its a matter of pure opinion but I wouldnt deem Harvard or Wharton better than CU Biz; one produced Trump while the other produced Buffett… Id rather be the oracle than the buffoon.</p>
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<p>Huh? Where are we going.</p>
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<p>First, you’re also making up a straw man – that CU undergrads uniformly don’t attend grad school at CU. That’s just not correct. There are a a number who do.</p>
<p>Second, you completely missed my point. Once again, CU UNDERGRADS MIGHT ATTEND OTHER IVIES FOR GRAD SCHOOL IF (1) THE PARTICULAR GRAD PROGRAM AT THE OTHER IVY IS MORE PRESTIGIOUS THAN AT COLUMBIA, OR (2) THE PARTICULAR GRAD PROGRAM AT THE OTHER IVY WAS THE BEST THAT HE COULD DO SINCE HE GOT REJECTED FROM MORE PRESTIGIOUS GRAD PROGRAMS.</p>
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<p>Do you realize that your opinion counts for sh**? While not the be all and end all, your opinion is contrary to most rankings.</p>
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<p>Terry Schaivo had more brain activity than that which was required to produce this statement.</p>
<p><em>headslam</em></p>
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<p>Hey, hey, don’t dis Fordham. It’s graduates enjoy impressive representation at many of New York City’s top law firms. Not everyone can score a 165 on their LSATs, in the same way that not everyone can score above a 1400 on the SATs.</p>
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<p>Yeah, they look for a lot of business-work experience that, I’m guessing, most applicants don’t have. I’m not saying I would make the perfect case but I held significant ownership in a software development company and had several years of business experience before CU. Also, I plan on maintaining some level of control in my company when I attend so I’ll be able to count the three years leading up to the application as well.</p>
<p>“Hey, hey, don’t dis Fordham. It’s graduates enjoy impressive representation at many of New York City’s top law firms. Not everyone can score a 165 on their LSATs, in the same way that not everyone can score above a 1400 on the SATs.”</p>
<p>youre right- as I pointed out earlier, my friend had a 170 LSAT, and a 1600 SAT- received a “crappy” Fordham degree and is now working for a top intellectual-property firm making a mere $60/hr. why CU didnt take him, I dunno. I suppose he just wasnt of CO2’s caliber which makes me question where he did his grad work, besides on the forums of collegeconfidential- 4 years as of april… I would expect some sort of certificate for all the dedication.</p>
<p>^^From what I hear, CU Law requires a 3.7 GPA</p>
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<p>Not just CU but all the top law schools is what I hear.</p>
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<p>With a 170 LSAT and a 3.6 GPA from Columbia, I sure hope he got a free ride to Fordham law. There’s nothing wrong with Fordham Law (you keep making a straw man that Fordham is bad, and shooting it down), but he should have been able to get into a better law school with those numbers. Maybe a Duke or a Georgetown. It’s not surprising that he didn’t get into Columbia Law with those numbers, and it has nothing to do with whether he went to Columbia.</p>
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<p>Yo, brahs: word on the street is that hearsay is a no-no.</p>
<p>Columbia:
GPA 75th / 25th percentiles: 3.82 / 3.58
LSAT 75th / 25th percentiles: 175 / 170</p>
<p>NYU:
GPA 75th / 25th percentiles: 3.90 / 3.60
LSAT 75th / 25th percentiles: 173 / 169</p>
<p>UChicago:
GPA 75th / 25th percentiles: 3.80 / 3.57
LSAT 75th / 25th percentiles: 173 / 169</p>
<p>Georgetown:
GPA 75th / 25th percentiles: 3.81 / 3.42
LSAT 75th / 25th percentiles: 172 / 167</p>
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<p>There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics.</p>
<p>Most top law and business schools don’t like to accept too many of their own undergrads. This is know as “inbreeding”.</p>
<p>However, there are numerous “gentleman’s agreements” to accept a certain number of undergrads from their competitors. Thus, if you were to look at Harvard Law School’s student make-up, about half of their class consists of Ivy League-class (plus Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, MIT, Michigan, etc.) undergrads. For example, HYP alone is probably 20-25% of Stanford Law School’s enrollment. So a giant state school like Illinois might have one undergrad admitted to Harvard every other year, while Yale has 20or so every year. Columbia undergrads fare quite well in this environment, too, although not the same as HYPS. Columbia Law School operates its admissions office similarly.</p>
<p>Stats from Yale Law School admissions, covering a 3-year period:</p>
<p>Total enrollment at YLS: 643
1L + 2L + 3L: 590
Misc (LLM, etc.): 53</p>
<p>Undergraduate Representation
Amherst: 9
Brown: 13
Columbia: 23
Cornell: 7
Dartmouth: 16
Duke: 9
Georgetown: 6
Harvard: 79
MIT: 5
Northwestern: 8
Princeton: 31
Stanford: 37
Swarthmore: 5
UC Berkeley: 16
UCLA: 8
University of Chicago: 8
UPenn: 9
U Michigan: 8
UT Austin: 8
UVA: 10
Wesleyan: 7
Williams: 12
Yale: 78</p>
<p>There are other “top” undergrads represented, but they only sent one or two students so I didn’t list them. Columbia does quite well, but still one tier below HYPS.</p>
<p>412/643 (64%) of YLS students hail from 23 schools.
225/643 (35%) of YLS students hail from 4 schools - Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Princeton.</p>
<p>Oh good, another dick-measuring thread. I love these.</p>
<p>1) Re: OP’s question. CU undergrads have very strong applications to most PhD work at most programs at Columbia, in part because the professors already know them if they’re any sort of serious candidate at all. The professional schools are a bit different as admissions are more quantitative and structured rather than driven by relationships and research work. </p>
<p>If you go to Cindy Cogdill at the pre-professional office, she can show you the stats that Columbia is the undergraduate school best represented at Columbia Law - although not by very much, and H/Y/P are right behind it. At Columbia Med, I’m sure Columbia UG students are at no specific disadvantage - certainly, your rationale is silly as grade inflation is as-bad or worse at many other top schools - but it doesn’t appear that they are at any particular advantage. At CBS, enough professional experience is required that they are less interested in your college career and more in your professional promise. However, Columbia B-school is particularly interested in yield rate; they only want to admit students who are VERY likely to attend, this affects their admissions, and Columbia UG students are certainly better bets to matriculate, so they likely enjoy a small boost in that regard, all else being equal.</p>
<p>edit: The post right above mine shows what i’m talking about for YLS. Cindy has equivalent data for CLS and it shows much stronger Columbia representation. Harvard College, of course, places well at all top law schools.</p>
<p>2) Jumping from Undergrad. There is an AILE program that gets you into Columbia Law after 3 years as an undergrad. However, you have to have a 3.9, a 170 LSAT, and have completed your major after only 3 years. After that, the application to the law school is something of a formality. However, those requirements are so huge that only 1-2 people do it every year.</p>
<p>I know of no similar program with the business school, although undergrad students are allowed to take classes there, and certainly do so frequently. If you say that GS students are “allowed” to apply to CBS after 75-90 credits, I’m sure they are, but they likely enjoy no special privilege or chances for doing so. Such a program may only be any sort of advantage at all for GS students who had substantial, meaninful business experience prior to starting at GS to finish a bachelors degree. Depending on LUKEJDAVIS’ experiences at that software company, he may qualify, but most will not be more than a blip on CBS’s radar.</p>
<p>3) C02 spouting off.
As I hope you’re aware, Harvard Med is not really regarded as a top school. Med School rankings are more multidimensional than undergrad or business and certainly far more multidimensional than law; however, aside from research, HMS offers rather little prestige to med school applicants. Poor example on your part; your point is otherwise well taken.</p>
<p>4) HBS/Wharton vs CBS. This is an issue I’m confronting with my forthcoming MBA admissions, so I’ve been doing a whole lot of research on this very subject. Suffice that regardless of what USNews might say, while there is a qualitative difference on average between H/S/W and Columbia/Kellogg/UChicago Booth/MIT Sloan/Tuck, in individual disciplines that 2nd tier may equal or exceed the first tier. For example, Sloan is particularly strong in tech/biotech entrepreneurship, Kellogg of course in marketing, and for either one you might prefer it to H/S/W. Along similar lines, Columbia is particularly strong in private equity, has a program dedicated to it, and does things like have Henry effing Kravis available to go have lunch with any student, anytime. I might prefer Columbia to Wharton for launching a career in private equity (though Harvard, probably not).</p>
<p>5) Fordham Law. With prestige of law school mattering so much to biglaw firms, especially right now with their market contracting, you would be hard pressed to claim that Fordham was anywhere close to quality (in terms of job placement) with CLS.
Something tells me that when he adds up all his hours, he’s not making $60/hr. He may in fact have a salary of $120k, which is standard outside of top biglaw firms (many of whom were starting at $140-145k as of 2006), but per hour worked, it’s quite possible that I out-earn him myself, with exactly zero years spent in law school. Something also tells me he’s not exactly working at the IP equivalent of a firm like Crevath.</p>
<p>My point is that, especially in any industry as prestige-conscious as Biglaw, there is always someone bigger than you, and humility is very important. If he’s big-timing you because he works at an IP lawfirm in manhattan and got standard biglaw 1st-year Associate pay, that’s great, but you really ought to put him in his place. Maybe ask him the last time he got to take a vacation without still being tied to his blackberry.</p>
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<p>Sounds like you took full advantage of the opportunity to show how much you know about all sorts of industries and professional programs, while utterly missing the basic point of the OP’s question. My posts, unlike yours, address the OP’s question and give the proper reasons why many CU ugrads go to other Ivies or worse schools for grad school.</p>
<p>what makes you think my comment was sarcastic? :)</p>
<p>and yes, you had already addressed that point. my comments were for flavor, or regarding the side subjects under discussion in this thread. </p>
<p>his question, though, was whether CU undergrads go to CU grad schools, and if not, why not. your response was to attack the credentials of his friend, as a way of trying to get him to question his assumptions, or some other shortsighted tactic. Meanwhile, I was attempting to point out that (1) The law school is one of a GREAT MANY graduate programs at Columbia, many of which are seeking to grant an MS or MA or PhD rather than a professional degree, and (2) Providing evidence to the contrary of what he claims, rather than just arguing with him. Some might find that at least as helpful as what you posted.</p>