<p>"I think bartering is allowed, shrinkrap. You should go eat off the value of your bill "</p>
<p>If only…think I’d go for so many hours as personal chef though.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned the Cornell Hotel School - you’ve got lots of time so I would suggest looking into that, it might be a good view of a different option. Not pressured, just for her to see what some of the options are out there.</p>
<p>We live in the Russian River wine growing region of northern California, the small rural high school my son went to has a great culinary program, we have so many top restaurants around that it’s proved be very popular with students. Because of these HS courses, one of my son’s friends became totally enamored with cooking and went to the CIA in NY. He’s in his second year, is working his butt off and loves everything about it. He spent the summer doing an externship in San Francisco at a very high-end seafood restaurant where the chef is a CIA graduate. For his Mom’s birthday the whole family went to dinner there and came back with rave reviews. She said the food was incredible and that her 19 year-old son was visible in the open kitchen cooking for a completely full restaurant without a hint of nerves or doubt. He sent out several of the dishes that he’d prepared for her to sample and she said she couldn’t believe that he was so accomplished. I think it’s a pretty good endorsement for CIA. This kid didn’t want a traditional college experience, but he’s totally happy and I don’t think there’s any doubt he’ll be gainfully employed.</p>
<p>Just a note – Cornell’s is less of a cooking school and more about management of hospitality enterprises, or at least that’s my impression. The base two year program at CIA is really focused on the kitchen.</p>
<p>Sorry to resurrect an old post, but I have a related question. My 18-year-old nephew just completed a culinary program in high school, and he wants to continue training to be a chef. I know CIA is generally regarded as the best, but are there any cheaper options that would be decent? He could take out a small number of loans to pay his way (such as Staffords), but there is no other money available to him. The CIA program would be about $70,000, and that’s too expensive for this family. Eastern states would be best. Thanks for any suggestions!</p>
<p>Re: Lurknessmonster:</p>
<p>Johnson and Wales in Providence Rhode Island</p>
<p>I’ve eaten at the restaurants operated by [New</a> England Culinary Institute - Where You Learn by Living It](<a href=“http://www.neci.edu/]New”>http://www.neci.edu/) and had great meals. Alton Brown graduated from them in 1997 according to their website. They seem to have a weird fee structure - $30,000 the first two years, much less after that. Opportunities for internships and scholarships are available.</p>
<p>One of D’s best friends is a student there. He got interested in cooking after getting a high school job as a busser at a local restaurant. He’s in the two-year program and it’s very demanding but he loves it. He’s had to get fingers stitched up twice that I know of-it’s a dangerous profession! He already has a couple of places asking him to come work for them when he is done.</p>
<p>If you are NY state residents, check out SUNY Cobleskill (check spelling?) Very good program, less expensive, and more of a “real college experience.”</p>
<p>A fancy degree is not needed for this industry, especially a degree that is 70K. It’s a cutththroat industry and it’s pretty rare for an exec chef to make more than 60/70K even as an experienced chef. So that being said, I highly recommend just doing an apprenticeship OR just working your way up- and many hotels/corporate restaurants/etc do prefer to promote from within if possible. If s/he’s a fast learner, start at dish and go to prep, then saute/grill/expo etc- always being willing to learn and being willing to take on more responsbility- do that and it’s almost guaranteed to be a sous chef within 3 years MAX. There is so much turnover in this industry you can move down the line and move up pretty easily. I’d expect to be in the sous role for about 5 years, but then you can start looking at the exec sous and then after doing that role you can do the exec chef probably after 10 years. As mentioned, you <em>can</em> trim time off by doing the 70K degree- but considering you need money to live, I wouldn’t recommend it. </p>
<p>Also…almost every employer- google on indeed or other job websites- that DO require a degree (and most say degree or equivalent experience) are more than satisfied with an ACF certification which I have not priced out but I would guess you can earn that for under 30K and you don’t need to live in one of 4 areas to get that.</p>
<p>Fwiw, johnson and Wales is a bad investment…</p>
<p>I tried to look for “Inside the CIA”, but I’m thinking this may be the real title
[Amazon.com:</a> Customer Reviews: Beaten, Seared, and Sauced: On Becoming a Chef at the Culinary Institute of America](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Beaten-Seared-Sauced-Becoming-Institute/product-reviews/030758903X]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Beaten-Seared-Sauced-Becoming-Institute/product-reviews/030758903X)</p>
<p>My son’s roommate entered the ACAP program after they got their BAs last year and my son seriously considered it but was more interested in operations end than the kitchens and is currently employed in the business in operations for a resort company working his way up and thinking about Cornell and the Master in Management. Both his roommate and he have worked in restaurants since they were 16 and then all through college moving up and doing different things at different restaurants. If your D is genuinely interested in being a chef she can get a bachelors and work in restaurants then make the transition but I would not be “afraid” for a kiddo that wanted to go straight to CIA. Restaurant is a ‘tough’ life but has it’s own subculture which takes on a life of it’s own as do many career paths that aren’t strictly 9-5. My son has been employed continuously for 7 years and was self-supporting pretty much immediately after college graduation in 2011 so there’s something to be said for the industry. He ideally wants to stay in the industry.</p>
<p>BTW it’s a good job for a kid. S2 runs a grill and is starting his junior year of college and has also been in restaurants since 16. S3 just got “promoted” this summer from the dish room to salad prep 
at one restaurant and he busses breakfasts at a second restaurant…he’s the workaholic of the three. Neither 2 nor 3 have any intention of staying in the hospitality industry but it padded their pockets for many years.</p>
<p>People considering CIA should understand that it’s a Bachelor’s in Professional Studies or an Associate’s in Occupational Studies – very different from a B.A. or B.S. When you review the CIA curriculum, you see how little of it would overlap the curriculum in a B.A. or B.S. program. Anybody with grad school aspirations for later (such as someone interested in the business side of hospitality who may be thinking of proceeding one day with an MBA) should take a sample of grad school admissions requirements and see if a BPS holder is even eligible, without further undergraduate study.</p>
<p>We have a local college here in Louisiana, Nicholls State University, that offers a culinary arts degree, four year, real degree. My nephew started in it and got involved in fraternity life and flunked out. It requires real classwork, studying, and is not play time. Happily, he got his act together and got a culinary degree from Strayer University, or something like that, in Virginia, where he lives now, and is working as a chef in Leesburg, Virginia. He still has his New Orleans roots of cooking and has built a bit of a reputation for himself. The restaurant is packed when it’s his night to do the specials. </p>
<p>The Nicholls program is run by Chef John Folse, who some of you may or may not know. I don’t know that you’ll get a job at a five star restaurant, but at least you do get a real college degree.</p>
<p>Nicholls State University is located in Thibodaux, Louisiana, a quiet bayou town, where life is slow and the living is easy. Very low cost of living, and low crime. People are incredibly nice, you can’t beat the scenery, and it’s a nice place to spend four years.</p>
<p>In our area, several local community colleges have extremely good (& competitive), culinary programs. That would be worth checking out at least, and it is very affordable.</p>
<p>“A fancy degree is not needed for this industry, especially a degree that is 70K. It’s a cutththroat industry and it’s pretty rare for an exec chef to make more than 60/70K even as an experienced chef.”</p>
<p>Several years ago I heard a lengthy report, I believe on NPR, about CIA grads being terribly burdened by debt from their education and most only getting restaurant job’s paying enough to barely survive on.</p>
<p>I won’t know the outcome of this for a while, but my son (2012 B.A.) has decided for now to pursue working instead of attending the CIA because of the debt he’d incur (even with some funds left over from his college fund). With one year of experience from a restaurant job and good references, he immediately found a good job cooking. He works in a new restaurant that’s getting lots of buzz–small kitchen, innovative menu, successful young chef, fun coworkers, and hard, hard work (including plenty of overtime). So far he’s pleased. Time will tell if he decides he needs more training, but at the moment he says he’d rather be paid to learn (even though it’s a pittance). The chef and a couple of the sous chefs are CIA-trained.</p>
<p>Friend of mine did the CIA program. After graduation he got an executive chef job at a top-rated Boston restaurant. After 5 years, he tired of the hours and the pressure. Decided to make a career change–went to work part-time at a college faculty club and started taking courses to get a teaching degree. He did the four-year program at CIA, but many credits didn’t count and he took courses for almost three-years to get a degree in elementary education. He did have a fair amount of student loan debt. He’s been a third grade teacher for 15 years and loves it. He’s happy he made the change. He’s still a great cook and loves to cook for dinner parties.</p>