I’ve always wondered how many students who start in CC and move to a 4 year institution actually finish in 4 years. If college is extended by a semester or 2 or even a year or 2 because you started in a CC, you’ve saved nothing. Further, you could also be eliminated from consideration for 4 year scholarships made available to freshman only.
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Competition. It’s well known that there will be fewer college students in coming years due to lower numbers in that age group. If a college knows they can get by with what they have now vs raising their price and students going elsewhere, they’ll take note.
Quite honestly, where I’m at in “statistically average high school America,” most students already follow the money. If X is cheaper, that’s where they go and it’s even more true if loans are a factor.
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Maybe, maybe not. And I may choose to subsidize the fellow residents of my state; not so much those who don’t live in my state.
If that’s the case, then what does that say about their willingness and ability to put in the hard work necessary in college?
No, they don’t. But I suspect that a motivated young person who is going to be a good candidate for matriculating at a college or university is also going to be a desirable candidate for the armed forces; conversely, someone who is not a good candidate for service in the armed forces – except on physical grounds – probably isn’t going to be “university material” anyway.
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Correct. And that should give someone adequate motivation to keep their focus and finish in a timely manner.
My son is choosing lowest cost, though it is far from his top choice. He is giving up his dream school(s) and opting to graduate with no debt. (mind you, we the parents are still paying a boatload - but at least it’s not the boatload and half of dream school) And I hope you’re right about competition, Creek. I hope in 4 years when I have to do this all again with my daughter, the landscape will have changed. It sure needs to.
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Not many TBH.
Because not every job out of college pays high wages, but we still want people doing those jobs. Then factor in the fact that many of those jobs are in HCOL areas - and in general COL for housing + raising kids is only getting higher.
If everyone had a job paying, say, 75K+ out of college and lived in a LCOL or moderate COL area I don’t think the subject would have ever come up. But many starting jobs pay 40-50K and then there’s rent, food, commuting costs, plus we want them to be able to start families at some point, etc.
By contrast, minimum wage at $7.50/hr is $15,600/year assuming 40 hours and paid vacation. We’re already using taxpayer dollars to subsidize many in this group. I’d rather use my taxpayer dollars elevating those who can into something else where they pay in instead of taking out. We’re not suddenly moving these students into the Top 1%. We’re giving them a better start in life.
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My wife and I decided early on that perhaps the greatest gift we could give our children was to insure that each of them graduated debt-free with a bachelor’s degree; and we were able to do that (albeit not without sacrifice). If graduate school may be in your son’s plans, then getting good grades and good recommendations while an undergraduate will help to get him into a very good graduate program somewhere – which will likely have more of an impact on his career than where he started his college education.
Best of luck to him, and you!
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My college tuition, public, cost $20,000 total, including room and board. At that time, my dad’s salary was about half of what my husband makes now. That same education costs $120,000 now. You can’t compare the costs to a few decades ago when college was much more affordable to all.
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That’s a difference between us then. I care about all of humanity vs any particular group.
Many are working harder in their jobs than most who earn more money by birth do. The jobs just don’t pay enough to cover life expenses and still save for college.
If they aren’t “university material” (or trade school) they aren’t even a factor in this conversation. It’s not like giving free money to everyone out there. We’re trying to help a segment of society that many realize can be helped with a return to the taxpayers.
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I agree; when I went to college, it cost my parents $600/quarter. I appreciate that it’s a lot more now, having paid it for my kids. But that doesn’t mean that paying for college without taking loans can’t be done; it’s just not as easy as it used to be.
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THIS. It really should be federal. If my child chose to go OOS, I am essentially paying taxes to subsidize tuition for an in-state institution that he will never use. Really costly to break out of your state.
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I congratulate you; and I’m sure that you will receive your reward in heaven.
I can assure you that I am not a member of the “lucky sperm club,” and haven’t received much of anything in the way of money simply due to my birth. The remaining sentence is, with all due respect, debatable.
I see that you missed my reference to “Spinal Tap.”
I’m not averse to helping others, but I think cancelling debt is not a better way of doing it. But we can certainly agree to disagree on that point.
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As someone living in a low cost area, I say let the high cost areas figure it out. Feds shouldn’t subsidize that. Though I am against federal disaster relief as well. You want to live where hurricanes and other natural disasters are common, you can figure out how to pay for it. Definitely not a popular view. LOL
Your citing salaries for college grads supports my view rather than countering it. So we disagree.
Under your plan of forgiving $27k of loans (currently and going forward), do you think there should be income tests? If so, based on family income or student income post graduation?
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Just a note to say how much I’m enjoying this conversation! Thanks everyone for chiming in. 
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Education is not federal, it is state supported at every level, from pre-k to graduate school at a public university. The only public federal schools are the military academies.
The feds give a lot of money to states to support the schools, but you are always going to pay state and local taxes to support schools, whether you use them or not. It’s true if your child goes to a private K, and true if your child goes to an instate university.
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I am aware that education is not federal and I know that I pay taxes to support schools whether I use them or not. I just don’t agree that it should have to be that way. At that very least, I would like to more schools and states with reciprocity agreements.
There is a large amount of student debt out there that isn’t being repaid, but there is also a ton that IS being repaid, as scheduled or on a modified scheduled.
The amount that is NOT being repaid? It really doesn’t matter to the big picture (US debt, society, the universities) if it is forgiven, if it is written off, if it remains on the books. It’s not being repaid. The difference is to the individual borrowers. If it is forgiven, the BORROW is free, his credit rating is restored (maybe), he can now borrow money to buy a house or car, but it doesn’t change the amount of money the US treasury receives. Nada. It isn’t being paid today, it won’t be collected tomorrow.
For the vast majority of student borrowers, they are repaying their $27k. They may not have a lot left over to buy a house or fancy car, but they pay their student loans just like they pay other bills. Having some or all of their student debt forgiven may change their spending habits or might just change their savings habits. The US wants them to spend spend spend.
I’d like to see the loan forgiveness because if was promised to the voters, and I do think some voted for Biden because of it.
What would I propose? I’d like student loans to be able to be refinanced at a 3% interest rate, and maybe forgiveness of all late charges and maybe accrued interest (not sure in my mind about that). Given them a restart. Going forward, continue the 3% interest rate. Students should be able to figure out how to go to college on a $5k per year loan plus whatever other aid they can get. Will it pay for Harvard? No. Will it pay room and board? No (but that isn’t paid for in K-12 either, unless you qualify for another federal or state aid program).
Lots of threads on CC about whether students should go to School A on a full ride or pay $250k for Columbia or USC. Either choice is fine, but taxpayers shouldn’t be funding that choice. If the private school wants to give a scholarship, that’s great. That’s the same choice everyone makes about going to public 2nd grade or private 2nd grade. Usually the private school offers something that the public can’t provide (small class size, hot lunch, computer lab) and that’s great, but the family has to pay. Abraham Lincoln public school for free or Country Day school for $20K? Your choice.
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No. That would only invite bickering among parents and more paperwork costing more money. Instead it would be like public K-12, except not mandatory for all. If any barriers were put on it I’d like to see oversight of schools to make sure they’re still only admitting those they feel can succeed vs those they pretty much know will drop out after a period of time. (Keep the same admissions standards.)
I see students more than parents and I’ve definitely shifted my sights to wanting students to succeed either with or in spite of their parents. Some parents can’t afford college even though they work hard. Some drink or otherwise spend the money when they should have saved it. Don’t punish the kids.
Some parents are making top wages and always have been. Some have started low and just gotten to higher levels recently making it seem like they can be full pay. Don’t punish the kids.
One can only hope that those who don’t actually need the money will choose to spend or donate it elsewhere. That may be a fallacy, but no program will ever be perfect. Treat all capable kids the same. The end game is a win-win (taxpayer wise) even if there are some spots that aren’t ideal.
27K isn’t going to get everyone to their dream school in itself. It’s just going to boost everyone. That boost allows some to get to CC and other state schools who otherwise couldn’t. In the process it will remove some from various welfare(ish) rolls and allow many to start adult life with more financial security.
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I agree with this 100%.
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Agreed as well. Overall, though, I believe it to be a very small minority of students/parents who choose the $250,000 door #1 with the expectation that taxpayers will foot that bill. I don’t think those of on CC are a representative sample of the college seeking/applying population.
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