I wouldn’t buy a house and expect the government to pay off my mortgage. Why should I expect the government to pay off my student debt?
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My ancient history recollection is that the non-profit predecessor to First Marblehead got burned by a bunch of recent law school graduates in the 70s which spurred the change. They did it after they graduated but before they passed the bar exam.
You did not need the house to be qualified for a job.
That said, there are plenty of people in low paying jobs who get gov’t assistance to pay for their housing. You’re already paying for it. I’d rather the folks in that position who could get higher paying jobs via some sort of education have the gov’t help pay for the education. This way, they go from using taxes, perhaps for a lifetime, to being a full fledged tax payer after a few years. The earlier the “switch” (meaning right after high school) the better financially for the investment.
Their kids will have a higher likelihood of being able to be taxpayers too.
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I’m a social worker, so I think I’m qualified to answer the question as to whether or not social workers need a masters. The answer is no, of course they don’t. No one NEEDS any education do they? If you intend to be licensed as a social worker, you must have an MSW. If you intend to buy a home, car, start a family (especially if you’re the primary income earner), you pretty much need an MSW. In my area, the average salary for a Social Worker (BSW) is $40,600 and the chance for significant advancement is negligible. The average salary for an MSW is $54,000 and you have the chance for advancement to even higher paying management level positions which almost all require an MSW.
I accrued this debt in 1994 when the options for obtaining an MSW were very few and far between. I opted not to get my degree from Washington University and went the cheapest option I could, in-state to IU. It was literally the only MSW program in the state of Indiana at the time. So what they charged, I paid.
The blame of taking on debt shouldn’t go on the student who wants to help others and chose the low paying field of social work. The blame should go on the cost of obtaining that education and on the low wages paid to social workers.
Do you think $27k subsidies for all will increase the cost of college? Thats one of your “blames.”
That is obviously the whole idea behind government subsidy of any education (K-12, state universities, etc.), since otherwise, kids from poor families will have little or no opportunity to get education because their parents cannot afford the up front costs. Educating them increases the likelihood that they become net tax payers rather than net spending needs, from a government point of view, and the whole economy is likely to be larger.
However, this type of thing also makes relative socio-economic class status more competitive. Some upper and upper middle class parents may prefer that their kids “inherit” substantial socio-economic class advantages to start out with rather than have to compete with kids from the lower and middle classes for their eventual socio-economic class status, even if their absolute socio-economic status may be better in the latter case due to an overall larger economy.
Of course, existing government subsidies to education may not be designed optimally. That so much of it has been consumed by predatory degree mills with poor completion rates for degrees widely regarded as worthless anyway is a waste that needs to be stopped.
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That’s my question. Given what you know now about your job could you learn what you need to know to be a social worker with upward job mobility in 4 years of college? Students get nursing degrees in 4 years. Is it comparable? Who determines the licensing requirements? Are they related to the job or just a way to weed people out? Credential creep is a recurring topic on CC and in particular as it relates to student debt load. One poster was commenting how a PhD is now required for PT. Again is that true? You need to write on an original piece of research to be a physical therapist? That’s like a 8-10 year track all in to be a PT. (Not sure how long the average PhD takes). Maybe you do, I don’t know bc I’m not a PT but I think these are the types of questions that need to be considered and addressed in connection with the costs of higher Ed and job opportunities.
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What do you do professionally, what are your degrees in, and have you ever developed a plan to advance professionally to pay off your loans?
I don’t know you- but situations like yours make me sad. I have a friend who is three courses away from completing a master’s which she put on hold when she had kids. The master’s would give her an automatic bump financially- right now- and make her eligible for a bunch of better compensated jobs. It’s not my place to tell her what to do, but every time she complains about being “stuck”- professionally and financially, I want to scream “just finish the degree”. Two courses. One research seminar. Done.
Is there any way that the CC wisdom of crowds can help you into a higher paying field to take those payments off your shoulder faster?
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My daughter is going for a DPT, 7 years, no choice, fortunately it looks like she will finish her undergrad in 3 years.
Not a PhD, a DPT, which is a 3-4 year program after completion of a BA/BS degree.
A History of Physical Therapist Education Around the World : Journal of Physical Therapy Education gives some history of physical therapy degrees in the US. The educational credential growth is obvious.
1979: “the average physical therapist bachelor’s degree program required approximately 142 credit hours for completion”
1979: “the American Physical Therapy Association House of Delegates adopted the position that entry-level education for the physical therapist be a post-baccalaureate degree”
1996: “Of the 159 physical therapist education programs at that time, 28% were at the baccalaureate level, 70% were at the master’s degree level, and 2% were at the Doctor of Physical Therapy (DPT) level.”
2001: “The last of the bachelor degree programs converted to the post-baccalaureate degree in 2001.”
2004: “55% of the programs were at the DPT level, and the new evaluative criteria of the Commission on Accreditation of Physical Therapy Education (CAPTE) stated that the DPT was the preferred degree.”
2011: “207 of 212 physical therapist entry-level professional education programs are at the DPT level”
2015: “CAPTE has added a criterion that, as of 2015, only programs that award the DPT will be accredited.”
So 7-8 years to be a physical therapist. That seems unnecessary IMHO.
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Note that it used to be possible long ago to earn a law degree without a bachelor’s degree beforehand. Physical therapy is far from the only profession where there has been an increase in the entry level educational credential. Other examples are accounting (now requires 150 credits, or five academic years of college work) and occupational therapy (was a bachelor’s degree a decade ago, now a master’s degree).
The entry level degree for speech pathologists is also a masters. You are required to have this to be licensed in every state. The masters is required for American Speech and Hearing Association Certificate of Clinical Competence which most employers want to see also. This has been the case in most places for a very long long time.
Masters speech path programs are two years long now and are seldom funded. My masters program had about 30 students and only three of us received funding. Luckily, I was one of them.
My undergrad degree was from a public university. I had about $1200 total in loans and the vast majority was from my freshman year at a private college. I was able to have my loans forgiven because I worked in a very very low income, high priority school district. Because of this, they were forgiven in five years in total.
A friend who I graduated college with had to go back to get her doctorate after working as an audiologist for 10 years.
Having attended law school I 100% agree with that. Pretty much everything I needed to know about being an attorney I learned on the job. Law school helped teach me to perhaps think more like an lawyer, whatever that really means, and if you want to practice litigation, criminal defense law, maybe appellate work it does help. But I think you could do 1 year of law school and you’d be fine although it would necessitate more mentoring at the law firms, kind of like internships and residency out of med school. Seems like law firms decided to outsource some of the teaching aspects to the law schools along with the costs.
And all these extra accreditation requirements in these various fields just jack up the cost overall.
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One of the major effects of raising an entry-level credential from bachelor’s level to post-bachelor’s level is to erect a much higher barrier to entry for new entrants to that job market. Not only are professional master’s or doctoral programs expensive, but financial aid and scholarships are much less available than for bachelor’s level programs. However, this effect is quite beneficial for incumbent practitioners who benefit from the limitations against new competitors in their job market.
Very large student loan debt is also much more possible with post-bachelor’s level professional programs than for bachelor’s level programs. This does not necessarily mean that it is always a good idea for the student, who needs to be very careful about comparing the post-graduation job prospects and pay to the debt involved.
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Nothing. And nothing for those who could have taken out loans and didn’t.
But that’s how tax credits work. When I adopted, the adoption credit was $5000. A few years later it was $10k and refundable, but I didn’t get another $5000. This year people with kids are getting $1000-1500 more per kid for the child credit. I know a family with 6 kids, all under 16, who got 8x $1400 and 8x$600 in the stimulus bill ($16000) and now will get 6x$3000 for the child credit, plus it is refundable, so $18000. Mother is a SAH mom, dad is in the military. They did not miss one paycheck, didn’t lose health insurance. For them, it is bonus money of $34000.
Everyone I know but one person collected more in unemployment than they did working. And now they don’t have to pay income taxes on $10k of that money.
Tax credits or other refunds are for that year. If you aren’t in that year, you don’t get them. First time home buyer credit, credit for electric cars, solar, windows may be there for one year and gone the next.
Student loan forgiveness may be there for a one time forgiveness, but not for the next generation. Doesn’t fix the problem going forward.
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THIS! Needs to be addressed!
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Which is what I want to fix. I don’t mind backdating it some, but fixing it going forward is what needs to happen. Get a better system, esp since the one we have isn’t working.
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My degrees are all in criminal justice and I don’t work. My husband is active duty and just three months after my first job post-graduation, he was transferred early and kept being transferred every two years since. We ended up realizing that the military lifestyle was not compatible with my career path as trained and chosen, but obviously hindsight is so much better than foresight for me. And it’s a field that has evolved and moved on so that what I’ve learned is out of date now and useless.
I left that first job to move and have tried some hourly work over the years, but my husband’s career has always come first and always gotten in the way. I’ve had to quit so many jobs due to child care issues or only one car or dealing with a sick kid. Eventually we realized I can try again once they’re in college. That’s next year.
Now we look down the barrel of my husband’s retirement and I fully expect to be working retail once he does- I can’t imagine I’m qualified for much more. I’m not in default and never have been, but I don’t see any end to paying them off in my future.