<p>The parents section has been awfully quiet these days. I wonder how many of you are parents of current 8th graders applying for BS admission to the 9th grade (You must be crazily busy trying to help your kids put together the applications like I am.); and how many current BS student parents were in the same boat. I don't know about you but one concern of mine is that I don't know if my kid's EC's are up to the standard. Just how important are they in admission decisions? Also, I am concerned about my 8th grader competing with some current 9th graders applying for repeating a grade, who have had one more year to prepare EC's, awards and tests. Someone in another thread said this was already becoming a trend in top tier BS's. Would the schools make any disctinctions on that? How is that changing the BS experience in general? Would love to hear your opinions.</p>
<p>Admission officers do not read applications the same way for every child. If they see that someone is applying to repeat a grade, they consider the reasons for repeating as part of their evaluation of the application. Is the student young for his/her grade? Is he/she not necessarily young age-wise but socially young? Would the student benefit from having an extra year academically speaking? For example, many public high schools teach Algebra I and earth science in grade 9. Most competitive BS teach geometry (or higher) and biology (or higher) in grade 9. Admitting a student as a new 10th grader who has only had Algebra I/earth science would put that student a full year behind his/her peers in math/science, so perhaps repeating grade 9 would be a good <em>academic</em> option for that student, regardless of his/her age. </p>
<p>Students applying for grade 9 who are currently in grade 8 are read as 8th graders. Have they taken the most challenging courses available to them in school? How are their grades and teacher recommendations? Have they gotten involved in something outside of academics (i.e. extracurriculars), and to what extent? Obviously it is easier for someone to be "president of student council" in 8th grade than in 9th grade, as the 8th grader is typically the oldest in his/her school while the 9th grader (who wants to repeat) is typically the youngest in his/her school?</p>
<p>While students applying for grade 9 (from both grade 8 and grade 9) are competing for the same spots, it is not like they are read/evaluated in comparison to one another.</p>
<p>GemmaV, I know you used math level just as an example, but it sounds to me if a 9th grader is only taking Algebra I, isn't that an academic deficiency? I thought top tier BS's only accept students of exceptional aptitude who are very well prepared. As to the "young issue", if a child is immature for his age (as you put it, "socially young") wouldn't it be a problem that this child is so immature that he has to be put in a pool of students one year younger than him so he can be competitive? Maybe I am getting it all wrong. I am still puzzled how this process works.</p>
<p>Admission officers (at least the smart ones) do not penalize students for attending a public school with a relatively "weak" math program. If Algebra I is the <em>highest</em> (or the <em>only</em>) class available to a student in 9th grade, and he/she is doing very well in it, it is not considered a deficiency in any way, shape or form. </p>
<p>However, if a higher level of math is offered and the ninth grader is ONLY in Algebra I (and it's more of a remedial course in that case), then the most competitive schools would certainly see that as a negative thing. I only meant it in the case of a student who has not had the opportunity beforehand to take a higher math class. Unfortunately, it is the case in many places around the country that the brightest students are stuck in classes way too easy for them, and that their public schools do not offer them the flexibility to move to a more advanced class.</p>
<p>As to the young issue...being "socially young" is a relative scale, and is looked at differently by different BS. I happen to work at a school where the ninth grade program is highly structured and helps students transition from being middle schoolers to being more independent, older teenagers. However, the students who come in grades 10-12 are expected to be much more self-reliant and do not have a very structured program to help them make the transition. They are asked to "hit the ground running" as the saying goes. If the admission committee sees a likeable candidate who is otherwise qualified (great grades, great SSAT, strong recommendations, and extracurriculars) but who, perhaps, is a bit young (I didn't say VERY immature)...and would benefit from being in the more structured ninth grade program that my school offers, there is no harm in having him/her repeat the grade.</p>
<p>I don't mean to be argumentative, but if a 9th grade student takes Algebra I and does it very well, while an 8th grader takes Geometry and does it very well as well, both are taking the highest level of math in their respective schools. How can you compare them? How would the 9th grader prove he has a strong math ability, other than his SSAT scores which are supposed to be all comparable in the highly intense competition?</p>
<p>That's the point: we don't compare them. As I wrote before, </p>
<p>While students applying for grade 9 (from both grade 8 and grade 9) are competing for the same spots, it is not like they are read/evaluated in comparison to one another.</p>
<p>In other words, we don't look at an 8th grade applicant first, then read a repeat-9th grade application second, and say, hey, we only have one spot, only one of them will get in, so let's look at them side by side and see who's better. That would be impossible.</p>
<p>They are each read for their own merits. Individually. Not in comparison to one another.</p>
<p>And a 9th grader can prove strong math ability just as any other applicant would: strong grade in math, strong math teacher recommendation, strong SSAT scores.</p>
<p>But there are only a certain number of spots. Say, hypothetically, for the last spot, an 8th grader and a 9th grader are both qualified. You will inevitably compare them correct? Assume all parameters equal or about equal, which I think is possible when 5 times as many qualified applicants are competing for 1 spot, would a 9th grader have an advantage?</p>
<p>Watertester- private school students are also, in general, older for their grade than public school students. This starts with kindergarten "cut off" dates being different. I would like to say that there is no difference in the readiness of a 13 year old and a 15 year old for the rigors of boarding school, but that is not true. (And our family has done it both ways) We can all say "that's not fair," but the fact is...life is unfair. Wait until you get to college admissions!</p>
<p>No, we don't inevitably compare them to one another. As I said, that would be impossible. That's like trying to compare filet mignon to chocolate creme brulee. I want to eat both of them.</p>
<p>An admission committee may, however, compare one applicant to other applicants w/ similar credentials. </p>
<p>For instance, if you have 100 spots, you don't need to fill 20 of those spots with tuba-playing robotics geniuses. So, if, near the end of the process, we have admitted 20 tuba-playing robotics geniuses, we might line them up and look at those kids in comparison with one another. Robotics Genius #1 has 99th percentile scores and is from Nebraska. Robotics Genius #20 has 65th percentile scores and is from Connecticut. #1 stays in, #20 gets pulled out. </p>
<p>Similarly, if we've admitted 12 repeat-ninth-graders who all play water polo. Water polo player #1 who is repeating the ninth grade has 85th percentile scores and is an alumni child. Water polo player #12 who is repeating the ninth grade has 75th percentile scores, doesn't do anything else except play water polo, and, after further consideration, doesn't seem like all that nice of a kid. #1 stays in admit, #12 gets let go.</p>
<p>The top schools aren't necessarily looking for well-rounded individuals, they're looking for a well-rounded CLASS. So, in those 100 spaces, we look to have a little bit of everything. </p>
<p>Some repeat-ninth-graders, but most coming straight from eighth grade. A couple of tuba players. Some underwater basket weavers. Maybe a dash or two of left-handed baseball pitchers, and a sprinkle of soon-to-be Eagle Scouts. A quarter teaspoon of debaters. Some poets, some Irish step dancers, some mimes and jugglers. A pinch of conspiracy theorists. You get the picture.</p>
<p>GemmaV, that's some explanation, thanks for that. So my understanding is that repeat-ninth-graders is a "category" just like "math genius" or "tuba player", which has a certain limit in number of spots (though it could vary year from year?). So in a sense, the repeat-ninth-graders are competing among themselves. I know the process is probably more complicated, but that's the best understanding I can get.</p>
<p>That's pretty much what I was trying to get at, but as you can imagine, many applicants do not just fit into one "category." They may overlap into several categories. "International," "children of alumni," "basket weavers," "tuba players," "improv actors," "rowers," "repeat ninth graders." Any applicant can be one, two, all, or none of these things. </p>
<p>And there might not necessarily be a <em>limit</em> in spots for each category, but you wouldn't want all 100 (or 50, or whatever) of your admits to all play the tuba, or else, that would be a really boring incoming class. </p>
<p>The fact that the selection process is so complicated is what keeps those of us in the admissions profession employed, something for which I am extremely grateful (particularly given the current global economic crisis). Thank goodness a machine can't do my job.</p>
<p>GemmaV, what do you have to say about Biohelpmom's comments. That's actually the other part of my question - how does the fact that more and more 'repeaters' are applying?</p>
<p>Edit: the other part of my question is - how does the fact that more and more "repeaters" are applying affect the boarding school landscape and experience?</p>
<p>There was actually an article in the New York Times about this trend last year, or maybe the year before- if you search on this forum, you will find it. Athletes have always been "red shirted," now it seems to have spread to the rest of the private school population. Some prep schools actually require a repeat year as a condition of admission. I regret sending one of my kids off to be one of the youngest in the class. Although it all worked out in the end, an extra year of social maturity would have been better for an otherwise bright and talented student. We held the next two kids in the extended family back for a year. Best decision we ever made.</p>
<p>My S is almost the youngest even in his grade. Although he is quite mature for his age physically and mentally, I am still concerned if it would be the right decision to send him to a boarding school where he is 1 or 2 years younger than many (?) of his classmates. I just think it is unfair (oh well I know the "life is unfair" mentra) to put him in an disvantaged position and still ask for the same kind of leadership, maturity etc.</p>
<p>Watertester: As the parent of a 9th grader, who was very busy with applications last year at this time, I too was concerned if the repeat 9th graders were "unfair" to the 8th graders. I think I even posted asking questions about it last year. GemmaV's explanation makes very good points about the process. Also, once everything has been submitted by us and our children, it is up to the admissions committee. So, we have to place our hope and trust in them. My limited experience is that they are all very hard working and dedicated people, really trying to do right by all of the applicants and their school. And they must have to make many difficult choices.</p>
<p>If the schools your family has selected are a range of reach/match/safety schools, then I think you will have success on March 10th. For students only applying to five schools, each with an acceptance rate of around 20%, I believe that the risk of unhappy results can be quite large. Many schools must reject many highly qualified applicants.</p>
<p>Good luck with the process!</p>
<p>Watertester- for boys, it is especially important to look at their physical size. There is such a wide variation in when their growth spurt kicks in. Feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>At my son's interview I asked about my daughter, who will be applying next year as a repeater because she skipped a grade. The admissions officer I spoke with said that it was so common that they didn't even think about it (skippers repeating), so some of those repeaters won't be any older. The student who toured us had skipped a grade and then repeated upon entry to BS.</p>
<p>The "skipping repeater" is a whole other story. My S has had chances to skip a grade and we didn't let him out of the concern that he'd be among kids much older than him. So I guess I overlooked the fact that some repeaters are not older.</p>
<p>BrooklynGuy, I don't know if there are others who are like us, but we decided to apply only to some "reach/match" schools (I believe my S is competitive enough for some of the best schools but who can safely say they are their "matches" not "reaches" lol). If he can't make into any one of them, then we are fine sending him to an excellent local day school here, for which we are confident he can make it. We wouldn't want him to join a second tier BS - figure it's not worth it.</p>