<p>So I've been lucky enough to receive some interview invitations to awesome biological sciences graduate schools, including some of my top choices (Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, UCSF, etc.). I was wondering if we could get any of our current grad students on the boards to weigh on their experiences. How did you decide between the schools you were admitted to? Any words of wisdom you could impart about grad school (picking rotation labs, picking a thesis lab, where to live, etc.) would be much appreciated!</p>
<p>My number one piece of advice would be to pick your PhD program based on the specific laboratories that interest you. It’s very tempting during interview weekends to try and discern some sort of overarching program culture that’s different between different places, but realistically, what will make or break your graduate school experience is the particular lab you end up joining for your thesis. You’ll be buddies with your classmates during your early years when you’re taking classes, but once you join a lab, that will become your major social environment, and the environment of your program will matter less.</p>
<p>If you don’t know exactly what you want to do, or if multiple programs are attractive to you on a scientific level, I think it’s perfectly legitimate to pick based on location, or climate, or a coin flip, or whatever. These are all outstanding programs, and you can’t go wrong picking any of them. </p>
<p>If all else fails, you can have terrible choice algorithms and still end up okay. I didn’t know what I wanted to do in grad school (not good), picked rotation labs without a good plan for what I wanted to do (also not good), and stubbornly picked a thesis lab in the absence of really good reasons for joining (bad). I am still a very happy fifth-year. :)</p>
<p>I narrowed down my schools to my top two based on faculty/research fit and what I thought about the current students and interviewees. Deciding between my top picks, however, was really just gut feeling, though. Seriously, you’d be amazed by the amount of evidence out there supporting the notion that following your gut feeling, more often than not, leads you in the right direction.</p>
<p>What if you don’t get a chance to interview with some (or all) of your labs of interest? I’m in the same boat as sunkist, where I have tons of great options (many of them the same as Sunkist). At each of the schools I’m interested in, I have maybe 8-12 labs that I’m interested in, but of those 8-12, I’m <em>highly</em> interested in perhaps 2-4 at each school. What happens if say I get to interview with a handful of PIs that I’d definitely be interested in working with, but not the few that I’m strongly interested in working with? How would you go about deciding in a situation where you interviewed with some labs you’re interested in, but for some reason or another they tend to be a little bit further down the list? </p>
<p>Also, I’ve been talking to a lot of post-docs and grad students around my lab about gauging the atmosphere of a lab. They told me that during these recruitment events, no one really tells you anything negative directly and that you need to be somewhat discerning. Do any of you veterans have any suggestions out there for what to ask current students and/or the PI to get a good impression of a lab? What do you think would be some red flags to look out for, or conversely some little things that indicate the place is a good lab to work in? I have my own ideas, but I’d like to hear from some veterans outside of my own lab/institution.</p>
<p>sirtuin: If I were you, I’d base my decision on the 2-4 labs that you like most. Chances that your initial judgment on all of those are wrong are pretty low, so I’d see the additional groups more as a “nice to have more people around in my field” bonus. If your absolute top-choice is not on your interview list, you can always try to schedule an interview on your own. </p>
<p>Assuming that most of the labs you are interested in are in the same field, it might, however, be worth to check if the people from these labs socialize with each other, or go to each other’s lab meetings and seminars (which from my point of view, is a big plus).</p>
<p>I think you should just try to speak with people from that lab, whether you get to interview with the PI or not. And if you talk with grad students from labs you’re interested in joining, let them know the lab is of particular interest to you (so they can speak more specifically), and ask them open-ended, non-value-judgement questions. (I’m thinking about what I would like to be asked by a prospective student, and “Tell me about life as a grad student in your lab” is going to get you a much more honest and detailed response from me than “Is your PI a good mentor?”)</p>
<p>To decide whether a lab is a good place for you, you’ll have to think about what kinds of things you want in your ideal lab environment. Certainly there are some labs that are toxic sinkholes of horror for everybody, but I think most labs have certain kinds of people who would be good fits there. Do you want to be in a big lab? One with more postdocs than grad students? Do you want to be in a social lab? Do you want an advisor who’s hands-on or hands-off? What’s your pressure threshold? </p>
<p>Ultimately, your rotations will help you decide whether any particular lab is a good or bad environment for you, because you’ll get to see them at their best and worst. The best you can really do at interviews is pick a program where you have several labs you’re interested in rotating with, I suppose.</p>
<p>Just wondering, but what’s the procedure of talking to students in labs you’re interested in? Will you meet them during the interview with the PI? Will you just run into them at one of the social events? How do you make sure you meet up with the trainees in labs you’re interested, especially for a big program with literally hundreds labs?</p>
<p>I agree having the “Tell me about life in your lab” talk is better than asking “Is your PI a good mentor?”. I’m brainstorming things to ask trainees and even PIs about the “environment” in the lab during the “Tell me about your lab” conversations. Here are some of my ideas for things to casually bring up:</p>
<p>How often does your lab go out to eat together? Does the PI ever come with?
What’s the lab like when people come in in the morning? Do people chitchat or grab coffee together or immediately start pouring gels? Do people talk to each other about their projects a lot? Could everyone in the lab name describe everyone else’s project in one sentence?
How late do people stay in lab? What’s the lab like at say 8 PM on a Wednesday or 1 PM on a Saturday?
How are chores handled in lab? What about ordering? Do people share stock solutions and equipment or is it every man for themself? Is the lab super-clean or super-cluttered?
How often do you meet with the PI? Are they at school a lot, or are they flying all over the world most of the time? When you want to meet with them, what’s the procedure for arranging it; can you just walk in when their door’s open? Does your PI walk up to you in lab and start asking questions? Or have they never set foot in the lab? How often do they respond to emails?
How are lab meetings structured in your lab?
Do people tend to have multiple projects going at the same time, or does everyone just have one project? Has your PI ever given the same project to multiple people?</p>
<p>These are just some of my ideas on how to gauge the culture of a lab. I wouldn’t really pointedly ask them out of the blue, particularly the harsher ones, but I’d try to work some of them into the conversation. I don’t think there are right answers to these, but I think if someone told me they work in a lab where people work long hours but talk science with each other a lot and share protocols, that goes for wings and beer every few weeks and where the PI is helpful and available would be a great place to work. Likewise, a lab that never socializes, where everyone keeps their project to themselves, the PI is unreachable and you practically have to bribe someone to use the centrifuge next to them would be an awful place to work. But then again, that’s just me. </p>
<p>Sunkist, I’m sorry to hijack your thread. I do think we’re both wondering similar things though, what kinds of things should we be sure to ask about when we meet the people behind the fancy webpages and covers of Cell.</p>
<p>Yes, there will be social events at most places with grad students. You can ask around and see if anybody knows any of the grad students in lab X – last year at my program’s dessert reception, my collaborator and I talked with a student who was interested in our lab and had been pointed in our direction by one of my classmates. And you can always ask the PI during your interview if there’s a grad student you can email.</p>
<p>Your questions sound great, and I hope I didn’t sound patronizing. I’m just a terrible question-asker myself, and tend to ask the most ridiculous single-answer leading questions when we interview postdoc candidates and techs (“Tell me, do you eat kittens? A lot of kittens?”).</p>
<p>Thanks. I’ll be sure to ask around at the receptions/dinners/dessert things if anyone knows people in the labs I’m interested in. I’ll also ask the PIs who to talk to and try to get in touch with current students by phone or email soon after the interview.</p>
<p>Are my questions a little too pointed? Some of them are designed to gauge the lab environment (how social the lab is, how scientifically engaged it is, how cooperative and organized it is), others are designed to catch what I consider to be serious red flags (signs of major tension, absent and/or unprofessional PIs, trainees pitted against each other, etc.). I’m a little worried about how to bring up the questions that could reveal red flags in diplomatic ways. Any suggestions on how to do this tactfully?</p>
<p>I have some words of caution on choosing a school based on a few/handful of PIs that you really want to work with. Things can change from the time you interview until the time you might start a rotation: PIs get prestigious jobs outside of your school (Director of the such and such wisbang Organization/Academy etc), move to a new school, get sick/die (very rare, but it does happen), retire (and perhaps as a recruit, you don’t get this info), have personal/family problems that effect their work, major fluctuations in lab members (post doc turnover), has change in direction of research (away from your interests), etc etc. It goes the other way: a school that might not have so and so, they might just hire new faculty… There are tons of the factors that might make a PI that looks super on an interview weekend not be a real possibility once you join the school. Try and find out who they are trying to hire, who is sticking around, who is leaving, etc. if you are serious about a research area and the PIs in that area. Of course, having PIs you are interested in should be a big factor in your decision, just make sure that you aren’t putting all your eggs in a few PIs baskets (so to speak). The vibe of the school, program structure, students, city, location, etc. are v. important too.</p>
<p>(Also, perhaps you originally thought ___ research was the bees knees, and then you start grad school and not so much. But you picked a school with great PIs in ___ research, but now…)</p>
<p>But LAC operon, how <em>else</em> are you supposed to choose a school other than your lab and research interests? I can see not selecting a school for 1 lab if you hate everything else, but your lab(s) have to be the paramount reason you choose a university in grad school.</p>
<p>Your #1 task in grad school is going to be research. Yes, the vibe of the school and program structure are important - especially with how much support you get from the department and the school in terms of finishing the program goes (do they have good career services? do they offer travel funding for conferences? do the students feeling like they understand the hoops they have to jump through to get the degree? Are people passing exams and finishing? Is it very competitive or do people work together?). The city and location…IMO as long as you are not miserable there that doesn’t matter very much. You won’t have a whole lot of time to do a whole lot anyway, and young people tend to make their own fun in university towns. I think as long as you are mostly happy the location is pretty much the last thing on the list you should consider, particularly if you want a serious career in academic research.</p>
<p>I totally understand what you’re saying. One of my advisors told me to NOT under any circumstances imaginable attend a school with less than 3 labs that you’d be absolutely thrilled to work in and a variety of other interesting labs, because odds are one will loose funding/won’t take students/won’t like you/you won’t like them/run an intimidating, competitive lab/run a lab so hands off he/she won’t learn your name until your defense or a host of other things. </p>
<p>I tried to pick schools to apply to that 1.) Had a few labs I’d be highly interested in working in 2.) Had dozens of other labs doing cutting-edge work in fields completely unrelated to mine, in case I change my mind about what I want to do or for other reasons aren’t able to join the labs I’m currently interested in. I received interview offers or straight acceptances from every school I applied to, and I’m thinking it’s going to be really hard to differentiate between the schools. It seems like a bit of a shot in the dark, and I’m just trying to think of smart ways to gain the most information about these schools and determine what I need to do to make a smart decision.</p>
<p>I think that after attending the interview weekends you will have a much better idea. Programs do have very different feels-- some have a lot of older students, some mostly younger. Some have very cohesive classes, some have classes where you spread out after the first year and no longer see your classmates very often. It’s definitely worth asking questions about the labs that you are interested in, to see if there are any red flags that most of the current grad students know about.</p>
<p>If everything is even, location is a perfectly legitimate reason to choose between top schools-- you will be in the city for 5+ years.</p>