<p>Question for current Wake students:</p>
<p>My D is getting very serious about Wake as her #1 choice, and she'll be interviewing on campus in August. We visited in April.</p>
<p>How are you enjoying Wake Forest? Is it what you expected when you applied? What's better? What's worse?</p>
<p>Thanks for any help you can give!</p>
<p>Thanks for posting, bettzke.<br>
I’m interested, too. It seems to be Son’s #1 as well.</p>
<p>:cool: 
</p>
<p>WILLMINGTONWAVE, the wise Demon Deacon, where are you??? Bettzke needs your help!!!</p>
<p>I love Wake Forest very much. Coming out of high school I wanted several things:
A better climate than New Jersey, Big Division 1 Sports, a beautiful campus, a small schools, and strong academics. There really are not many schools that fit this. In the southeast (where I wanted to go) only Duke, UVA, and maybe Vanderbilt were similar, but all are also bigger. I have not been to Vanderbilt, but it is in a city and a bit further away than I would have liked. However, I have been to Duke and UVA multiple times. I would implore you to consider UVA, Charlottesville is a great place to be. Duke however, I still am not a fan of. Putting all ACC sports biases aside, I just do not think it is a friendly place. In the gothic confines of the campus, torture rather than scholastic achievement seems more likely. </p>
<p>Furthermore, Wake Forest is blowing up as a school, in that it will continue to rise among the elite institutions of this country. They are expanding it gradually, which really isn’t a big deal, because it is very small, and making new buildings and renovations. Furthermore, Winston-Salem is simply a more desirable place to go to school. I am looking very forward to coming back in 20 years as an alumni to see how Wake Forest and the surrounding community has changed. </p>
<p>However, Wake Forest does have some downsides such as the Greek System, which while it does not bother me, is still very much overdone. On the flip side, our professors care very much and are always willing to help you. I have gotten lunch/dinner with professors on several occasions and always drop in to office hours, I doubt you would get that at another school. </p>
<p>So clearly, I am a big fan of Wake Forest University. I apologize that I was so verbose in this post, but if anyone has any further questions, please PM me. Thank you and best of look in your endeavors.</p>
<p>I’m a rising junior at Wake and have to say I absolutely love it. </p>
<p>I’ve wanted to go to Wake since I was in 8th grade and applied ED (Single Choice- when they had it) right after my junior year of high school. Because of this I had some major worries right before and during the first part of my freshman year, worrying that I hadn’t chosen the right school, that I should have applied elsewhere, etc. This was especially true because my plans for my major drastically changed (came in Poli-sci/Math/Physics) to music, which is a fantastic department but rather small. </p>
<p>Wake has probably exceeded my expectations in almost everything. The classes, for the most part, are challenging but I feel like I’m learning important information and/or skills (how to write/research extremely well, etc.). I also enjoy having a group of friends who are interested in academics and doing well, having deep conversations about what we are learning and what we are being challenged with. Professors are kind and approachable and want you to succeed. </p>
<p>I think my favorite part of Wake is the sense of community. I love being a small school and having such a closeknit group of friends. I’m also really involved with a campus ministry, which has been probably the highlight of my experience here. </p>
<p>My two disappointments probably boil down to these:
Study abroad
Administration</p>
<p>I’ve studied abroad twice with Wake, once the summer after my freshman year in Sicily and this past spring semester in London. I think it probably has the most to do with my expectations, since everyone told me it would be my easiest semester at Wake. Sicily was difficult because we were doing 7 hours of classes in 5.5 weeks, while trying to live somewhere where no one speaks English. Last spring I worked a ton (over 100 pages of writing and an obscene amount of reading). I absolutely LOVED London (and the Wake house) and wanted to be able to explore and enjoy all it had to offer, but a lot of the time (especially after our spring break), I was working almost around the clock (and I had been diligent with my work). I would still go back because it was a great experience, but I would have liked to know the reality of it before I went into the whole process. (My professors, both the one from Wake and the British ones, were fantastic). I also got to go to 14 theatre shows included in the normal price of tuition, which was great. </p>
<p>I’m also a little frustrated with things with the administration. As I mentioned, I love Wake being a small school and am opposed to them increasing the size, especially since things are already so cramped. Even once they expand the buildings and such, I still wish that Wake wasn’t growing because it is truly unique and I can’t help but feel certain things are going to change (for the worse). Parking fees keep going up because they are admitting more students and we have had a problem with parking long before I even got to Wake. They are also putting so much pressure on the professors to have a certain number of people in the class or the course isn’t offered. As a music major, which for the last few years has only had maybe 4-6 graduates every year, it severly limits what courses are offered. For instance, I’ve been looking forward to a class, Music in the Church, since freshman year that was going to be offered this coming fall, but it was cancelled because they didn’t think there would be enough. Also, they are requiring at least 8 students for all classes, which is horrible for certain music classes (like theatrical singing, where each person needs individual attention) that are done in a group setting but are time-intensive for each individual. I can understand where they are coming from economically, but especially for the arts I think exceptions need to be made for the nature of the courses. </p>
<p>But really, those two things are not enough to detract from my overall experience and I would never want to be at undergrad anywhere else.</p>
<p>Any truth to the “Work Forest” label?</p>
<p>(I’ve read elsewhere that the answer is “it depends.” But I’d like a fresh perspective.)</p>
<p>^ ok then, please add this factor -
In your opinion, is Wake meeting your expectations if you were to have to pay 100% tuition?</p>
<p>this isn’t a game show… :)</p>
<p>I have friends at Wake who have done summer classes at other schools and have breezed through them, so I think Wake Forest is certainly challenging, but not impossible. If you work hard, you will succeed.</p>
<p>I would not pay 100% tuition to go here in my current financial situation. However, it is worth paying more money to go to. With my financial aid, I am very satisfied with the Wake Forest experience.</p>
<p>Thanks to wilmingtonwave and LifeUnfolding for your thoughtful and candid views! I’d love to read more from others. </p>
<p>As a follow-up: Do you believe that most students at Wake feel the way you do about your school?</p>
<p>I’m a rising senior and in general I like Wake Forest. My family pays full tuition and if I were to do it all over again from the beginning I probably wouldn’t pick Wake Forest again. I’ve enjoyed my time here, but I don’t think its worth the full price tag. Wake Forest is still only a regionally known school (outside of sports) and that is difficult when it comes to looking for jobs and internships. I have friends with lesser GPA’s from higher ranked schools that have many many opportunities than people I know from Wake. </p>
<p>I too am frustrated with the administration and I have vowed that unless it changes Wake Forest will never see a donation from me ever. The Wake Forest I came to in 2006 is not the Wake Forest now. I hate being nickel and dimed for everything. I hate the ridiculous parking tickets. I hate the lack of security and concern for student safety. I hate the ridiculous attitude on IB credit. I hate the pressure on professors to research more and teach less. I hate the increase in size without a comparable increase in professors and classes. I hate that all of my friends are struggling to get into classes we need to graduate. I could go on for awhile. </p>
<p>I think the Work Forest label is pretty accurate. Most people work very hard. In most classes a lot is expected of the students. It’s not unreasonable work, but some times it’s more than students were used to in high school. It is not uncommon to have multiple tests and papers due in the same week. I’ve never found it to be a huge problem though. If you manage your time correctly and plan out your work it’s very feasible. </p>
<p>And a note on the study abroad programs. If you study abroad I’d suggest not going on a Wake program. As someone who lived abroad for years the Wake programs are not really study abroad programs. You go abroad with people you generally already know, you live in a house together, take classes together, speak English, etc. It’s like a semester of Wake with your friends but not in North Carolina. The people I know who have really enjoyed their abroad experiences went with other programs. Just my opinion. </p>
<p>And another note. I don’t see the Greek system as a downside. I joined a sorority freshman year and it has been a great experience for me. It all depends on personal preference. </p>
<p>Since I’ve said so many negative things I guess I’ll end on a positive. I’m a little bitter about a few things, but overall I’ve really enjoyed my time here. My major and minor are in small departments and I’ve really gotten to know my professors and fellow students. I go to some of my professor’s houses for dinners and chats. They are always willing to help, even if its a weekend and you call them on their cell phone. That’s probably the best part for me. I’ve really enjoyed my classes and taken a wide variety of subjects. I wasn’t boxed into a major from freshman year.</p>
<p>Scarletleavy:
Thanks for a very informative response! Do you think that the increase in enrollment and dropping the standardized test requirement for entering freshmen are part of Wake Forest’s plan to become more than a regionally-known university? There’s been an almost 450-student increase in enrollment in the last 5 years. How has that affected living space? Class size has gone up too? </p>
<p>Could you elaborate on your remark concerning the “lack of security and concern for student safety?”</p>
<p>Is it easy to get into a different study abroad program?</p>
<p>Yes I very much believe they are related. I’m not sure if you’ve read Wake’s press release about why they dropped the SAT requirement, but it claimed it was for reasons of fairness, etc. Maybe I’m a cynic, but I really doubt that. It’s about increasing their numbers. They can increase their average SAT. If you have a low SAT you won’t submit your scores, but if you have a high one you will. This will clearly distort the average SAT. Also, if more people apply you can reject more people. This will make you look like a more selective school. </p>
<p>Absolutely about the increase in numbers. They want more money and more students. It hasn’t really affect living space, because they are building a new dorm and they kicked faculty out of their apartments with almost no notice last year. This year there were many empty dorm rooms for upperclassmen because we’re still members of smaller classes. When the smaller classes graduate there will be enough rooms for the increased numbers in the younger classes. </p>
<p>Class sizes have definitely gone up. It’s harder to get into classes because they haven’t increased the number of classes. It’s frustrating and also annoying. I didn’t come to Wake to be in huge classes. That’s why I really love my departments. I still have really small classes. Most of my classes are between 8 and 15, which is a great size. </p>
<p>Winston Salem is not the safest city, not going to lie to you. There’s a lot of crime and some of the bad areas of town are right near campus. There have been numerous robberies and muggings (some with weapons) of students near and on campus. The university has made no real response to safety concerns beside closing the gates a few hours early, which has no real effect because campus isn’t gated and there are areas you can just walk on to. Areas which are right next to a busy road. I don’t think they want to spend the money to make sure their students are actually safe. I don’t feel safe walking back from my car to my dorm, but I don’t have a choice because if I park any closer to my dorm, even for a few minutes I’ll get a parking ticket. </p>
<p>Yes. As long as it is a program approved by Wake (and there are a lot) it’s pretty easy to get into. You have to apply and go through paperwork and stuff, but I know a ton of people who’ve done it. </p>
<p>Hope that helps. Sorry if I’m being negative, I just think it’s important people get an accurate picture of Wake before they choose it. Clearly the admissions department likes to spin things very positively, but there are some negatives. The Wake I came to freshman year is getting harder and harder to find.</p>
<p>D is also a rising senior. I won’t try to speak for her, but can add 2 cents about non-Wake study abroad programs. D did one this past semester (spring '09) that was an outstanding experience – she went to India, China & So. Africa. She really wanted something more than a Wake program where, as noted above, you go w/ Wake students and a Wake professor to a Wake house. Anyway, the down side is that Wake won’t accept her grades in the 4 courses she took, because it’s a non-Wake program. They count the hours, but not the grades – which is a bummer since she got all A’s.</p>
<p>As to the whole “work forest” thing – there’s a thread here devoted to that topic, if you do a search for it.</p>
<p>Although I am obviously concerned about safety, as any parent is, I also believe it’s an issue at almost any school in the country. I attended a small LAC in ME (way back in the day) and a woman was killed my freshman year. There is NO substitute for always being aware of your surroundings, being careful, and using common sense. I do agree that just closing the campus gates earlier is almost useless since you can walk onto campus at almost any point.</p>
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<p>I do not understand what is wrong with these two things. Take off the rose colored glasses, institutions of higher education are also a business and strive to succeed. No one really thought that “Gee, Wake Forest is so innovative for dropping the SATs as a requirement, because as we all know they are correlated to socioeconomics.” It is about more applicants and what is wrong with that? We will be taking better students and our degrees will be more valuable. What is wrong with innovation? Innovate or fall into oblivion. </p>
<p>Yes, they are increasing the enrollment, eventually to 5,000 kids. so that is 250 more kids per class. That is not a lot of kids, and I really doubt that will take away from the “Wake Forest experience.” Also they are building new dorms, a new dorm is expected to open for Fall 2010 next to Collins and there are plans for more dorms, more academic buildings. Nothing wrong with some expansion if it will make Wake Forest better. </p>
<p>Of course a school is going to want more money.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I don’t think anyone is naive or stupid enough to assume Winston-Salem is a great, safe college town. If you use common sense you will not feel unsafe–ie: don’t go around alone, at the wee hours of the night, etc. You also need to compare it to other schools. I have a friend at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. One night, he and his roommate went to sleep and forgot to lock the door. They woke up and both of their laptops and their television was stolen. Wake Forest is pretty safe and I know very few people who feel unsafe. </p>
<p>As a side note, as far as “regionally known university”, sure if you are asking Joe the Plumber about Wake Forest, but anyone who matters–> bosses, college administraters, professors, recruiters, etc. will know that Wake Forest is a great school.</p>
<p>I’m not wearing rose colored glasses. I don’t really care if Wake Forest does these things, I’m out of here in May. I do care that they are not being honest. Own up to what you’re doing, come out and say it. Don’t hide behind fairness and equality when in fact the reasons are purely numbers and rankings based. That is my issue with it. </p>
<p>I think increasing the number of students without an increase in teachers and classes is a problem. I don’t think that will make Wake Forest better at all. </p>
<p>Actually, a lot of people who matter don’t know about Wake Forest or don’t consider it a great school. It’s a decent or good school, but not a great one. This is especially true when you are dealing with international companies. Coming from Wake Forest you simply won’t get the same internship or job opportunities as say from Duke, an Ivy, Stanford, etc or even big famous publics. </p>
<p>I know Winston Salem isn’t safe, but there should be an effort to make campus safer. I’m paying $45,000 a year and in return I expect not to be mugged leaving my car or the library to walk back to my dorm.</p>
<p>I’m enjoying this debate! </p>
<p>I can understand scarletleavy’s and LifeUnfolding’s points of view as students who matriculated under a different set of circumstances. It serves as a lesson to our family to keep in mind that what is right now is not necessarily what will be 4 years (or even less) from now.</p>
<p>However, I do agree with willmingtonwave’s statement that innovation is necessary. Wake (if its goal is to become a nationally-known university) obviously sees the need to change…and I admire the institution for making bold moves. If it wants to be a nationally-known university some change is necessary. Hopefully they’ll add more professors and classes to protect its students from growing pains.</p>
<p>More thoughts please!</p>
<p>Agreed, I have no problem with innovation at all. I do have a problem with not being able to take classes I need to graduate or being in really large classes. That is not the school I came to nor a school I want to be in. If I wanted to be in huge lecture classes, I would have stayed in Germany and gone to university here for almost free.</p>
<p>Per recent incidents (ie: the last few years of campus incidents) they have installed more lights to make Wake Forest more well lit and I have noticed increased police presence on campus. I still have yet to feel unsafe on campus, and the notion of being “mugged leaving my car or the library to walk back to my dorm” is ludicrous. Sure there are incidents, but at any college campus this is true. Be aware of your surroundings and you have minimal fear.</p>
<p>Most of my classes have been small. Last semester I had one intro class with 25ish students, an elective with the same and then three other classes with less than 10. I just think it is overcritical to make assumptions based on right now. Obviously with change there are some growing pains. Furthermore, the baby boomers are retiring which puts further constraints on the number of faculty. </p>
<p>I just think it is shortsighted to not expect some bumps along the way. Even more so, it is hypocritical to simaltaneously criticize an institution for Wake Forest innovating. Without it innovating it will not become a greater school, which will lead to greater name recognition. However, this innovation is not possible without some bumps and some struggle. It is for the greater good of Wake Forest University.</p>