<p>My son is considering applying to these programs, although he realizes that the chances of getting in are nearly zero. These programs are very small and may not have openings for all instuments in any given year. Is there any wany to knwo if they will even be considering a tenor trombone player for 2013 admission, other than to pay the appication fee and have him apply? I hate to waste money on the application if there is literally zero chance of him getting in!</p>
<p>Call admissions. (that Curtis application is expensive and they understand your concern) I know that Colburn will start listing the amount of openings later in the Fall. <a href=“http://www.colburnschool.edu/page.cfm?p=1890&pback=1889[/url]”>www.colburnschool.edu/page.cfm?p=1890&pback=1889</a></p>
<p>I agree with musicamerica, call or e-mail admissions, they generally know by now roughly how many openings they will have or expected to have, I have been in information days where the admissions counselors knew roughly what would be available.</p>
<p>Wow! Thanks for such quick responses. I figured they wouldn;t tell me, because they woudl like the appication revenue, but it sounds like they may be more forthcoming than I had anticipated. I will give them a call.</p>
<p>I would call admissions or email the teacher directly.</p>
<p>We just dropped my son off at Curtis for his freshman year. Somewhere on the Curtis website they list the instruments for which they have openings. I’m sure it’s still too early for next year. My son was also in contact with the trumpet teacher – and took a lesson – and was informed that they would have one opening for sure with the possibility of a second spot. (A fourth year student was petitioning for a fifth year.) </p>
<p>Colburn was the same. With Colburn, however, there was a twist. At the time my son applied, they listed a trumpet opening. A few weeks before the audition he received an email informing him that there was no longer a spot. He was told he could still audition for a waiting list or they would refund the application fee. He took the audition, hoping someone in the studio would win a job. It didn’t happen and they didn’t take any trumpets from the wait list.</p>
<p>While application fees seem very hefty, in many cases they do not cover the full cost of processing and evaluating applications (particularly if an audition involves 6 or 7 faculty members–let’s see $150/hour X 20 minutes X 6 faculty members = $300 for a single 20 minute audition). Because music applications often involve more materials than a standard college application and because evaluating a prescreening recording usually involves a much higher level of expertise than is assigned to traditional college applications, the costs to the music college are high (and often higher than the application fee charged).</p>
<p>It would be unethical to accept applications if the school knew that there was no chance of admission. Most schools do the ethical thing, if for no other reason than to protect their reputations. I’m glad to hear that Colburn was so forthcoming and willing to refund the application fee, even when the circumstances which led to the closing of the opening probably were unforeseeable and beyond their control.</p>
<p>The grapevine has claims that schools will audition even if there are no slots available, but I haven’t heard that. As Violindad pointed out, the application fee is not a money maker, though you could argue that if they allow applications on something they have no slots for, it only costs them to say “aha, another X’ist, we have no slots, next”,but that I don’t think happens (and quite honestly, it isn’t enough to really generate much revenue). </p>
<p>I do know schools admit a lot more students then they have slots for, because they know there is an acceptance to actually going there ratio that varies by school, so if their admission rate is 90% to acceptance, they will overbook by roughly 10%…and if they end up with more students then slots, they will make room, that would be really unethical, to admit someone and then say “oops, we are overbooked” and also would prob be actionable.</p>
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<p>I always assumed so, too. But last year there was a kerfuffle on the musical theater forum here on CC when Point Park University rescinded admissions to MT students who did not send in their deposits quickly enough. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1320787-another-point-park-controversy.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1320787-another-point-park-controversy.html</a> Left some student in the lurch. I don’t know if there were lawsuits (I presume if legal action were ongoing they would not be posting about it.)</p>
<p>I have heard off-the-record stories of auditions held when spots were apparently already promised out. But, there may have been some internal departmental disagreement going on that caused such a scenario.</p>
<p>As for very small departments (like brass at Curtis) where there are not always openings, all you have to to is call and ask if they anticipate an opening. Eventually it will be published on the website. The school can predict openings based on expected graduations, but there are many easy-to-imagine scenarios in which that number might turn out to be lower or higher than foreseen.</p>
<p>I do love the word, “kerfuffle”! One that always makes me smile…
Anyway, I believe that Curtis will refund the application fee if there are no openings in a particular area- at least that was their policy in the past.</p>
<p>GH-
That sucks if the school did that. If kids missed the deposit cutoff date the school might be able to wiggle out of it, but if they offered them admittance and then simply said “oops sorry, no room” and the kids were before the deposit deadline, they could be in serious trouble in court, not to mention a PR disaster if the kids put this out to media and such. Part of it depends on the school’s written policies, in effect it would be a case of contract law,since written policies (electronic or paper) are held to be contractual obligations. If they had a disclaimer stating that it is possible slots may fill up and students would be admitted based on when they gave in their deposits, that would be one thing, but if they simply had 'Deposits need to be in by May 1st to guarantee a spot" and this happened before may 1st, they would be on shaky ground, if my business law classes in grad school hold. While obviously a school could audition for non existent slots since no one would know other than insiders, I suspect there isn’t really any reason to do so, unless they are doing it for insurance (i.e someone leaves they don’t expect to leave, which of course is possible). In that case it would be ethical to refund the application deposit.</p>
Sorry for resurrecting this necro-thread, but I just saw this today. That was a very unique situation. I had a student that took a year off from Colburn to play a one-year position with the Baltimore Symphony. During the course of that year, he had several other opportunities that he could have accepted, so we had to advertise a vacancy to cover ourselves - with a studio of just four, the loss of one player would represent 25% of the studio. After the vacancy was announced, the student decided to turn down those opportunities to return to Colburn and finish his degree. Everyone that applied was given the option of getting their deposit back, or coming out to audition for a wait-list - we were absolutely upfront about this. You opted to come out and audition. Your son played great, and I lobbied very hard to try to add an extra spot in the studio to accommodate him, but the administration was not in a position to do so. We provide free room and board as well as tuition to everyone that is accepted, and there simply was no space for him. I would have loved to have worked with him. I would like to add here that there is also no mention of the two free lessons he was given by me, so if you’re going to paint us as villains, please be fair and give these readers the whole picture. I made two separate, special trips downtown to work with him at no charge, and then I stumble across this site and see that we have been painted in a very negative light… There was absolutely no misrepresentation on our part.
I’m confused–I thought Colburn was portrayed in a positive light in the discussion above. The school that came under criticism was Point Park University in Pittsburgh.
I agree, there appeared to be no intention to paint Colburn in a negative light; it was simply factual. However, it is useful to see the professors side of the story. It’s very heartening to know that he lobbied hard to try to get the additional student.
I agree! It’s great to know the other perspective. @JWilt , you sound like a very caring and committed professor.
I didn’t think it painted colburn in a negative light, if they let the kid know before auditions that they didnt have a slot, and returned the application fee, the kid still can audition elsewhere and make decisions. My thoughts were about schools who admit someone who turns around and indicates they want to go there, but is delayed sending in the deposit required to accept admission, and then they say “oh, we don’t have room”, that would be a different story (which Colburn did not do). Among other things, the kid very well could have told other schools “no thanks”, thinking they were admitted and had accepted, then be cut short. On the other hand, if a school auditioned a kid, told them they were in, they had open slots for him, then said no room at the inn, I have a problem with that, especially since most schools admit a lot more people than they have slots for (even Juilliard, with a 90 some odd percent rate of kids accepting after being admitted, allows extra for the kids who don’t go, usually wait list).
I agree with GH, it is always good to see caring professors on top of things.
I tried to go back and edit my response after reading the entire thread, but I think after 15 minutes, the system locks you out. That’s what I get for being reactive, lol… This was an outstanding player - broke my heart to not get a chance to work with him, though he is obviously in very good hands at Curtis.
You sound like a wonderful teacher-- and someone who really cares about his students. (We’ve all had a problem with being locked out of editing our CC posts, so we totally understand.)
Just a quick note to confirm I was not painting either school in a negative light. I was just inquiring about the process, as both schools have such small studios, I was not certain of the process. DS opted not to submit to Colburn, but in light of your comments, and how you went above and beyond,it is clear you are a wonderful teacher!
Just stumbled across this thread again… Interesting… Just so it’s crystal clear, Jim Wilt – the Colburn faculty member – was great with my son! (As was everyone else at Colburn.) They were very upfront about everything. He knew going in that it was a long shot. I want to make sure that my post was not interpreted as a complaint.
Hi Tom - thanks for the comment. I think I was reacting to another post that I had hastily read and misinterpreted. After reading the thread more carefully, I think I was unnecessarily defensive but this site will not let you edit your comments after a certain time period. I hope Noah is doing well - he is the best high school player I’ve ever heard, and I’m sure he’s made great progress with Dave. Thanks again.
Jim