<p>I went to the open house the other day for my 10th grade daughter. I found out that she got a high C (border B) on the first test. About 1/3 of the class got lower scores then her. The teacher suggested that we should consider withdrawing our kids if they didn't get B or better. I am not sure what to make of it. On the one hand, this test took place only 10 days after the school year started, so I think a lot of kids had not settled in the routine yet. The teacher expressed his desire to weed out as many students as possible with this test. On the other hand, my D is skipping the general chemistry course. She's had never had any tests lower than 94 in her school career. I have the option of withdrawing her to a lower level class, but she'd like to stay and try. I am grateful for her perseverance and not letting one test dragging her down but I am thinking of getting her a tutor if she doesn't do well on the next test. Then I thought I just overreacted! If this is your D, what would you do? If you went through the same thing before, I want to hear how you kids end up in the class as well. Thanks every one. I am freaking out ( and I know I am overreacting...).</p>
<p>Never taken general chemistry and did that well? I wouldn't worry about it.</p>
<p>If this is an experienced teacher and known within the school and your D thinks she can learn from him, I'd be inclined to let her sick it out.
We had some real iffy experiences with 'new to the school' teachers in AP classes, had some less than stellar grades, but I'm not sure that those tough coursed didn't help in the admission process.</p>
<p>It is hard to compare schools. At our school, almost everyone takes the general science course before the AP science course, so they are presumed to know a great deal already. I would try to talk to other students (or parents) who have gone through this class to assess whether your D will manage OK. You may end up staying in with a tutor, but to me a final grade of C in an AP class would not look so good.</p>
<p>There isn't near enough information to provide informed advice, so I'd default to "what the student thinks." A make-or-break test ten days into the school year? A teacher trying to encourage two-thirds of the students to quit? Very unusual.</p>
<p>Have many or most of the other students taken general chemistry before AP? (Here it's a pre-requisite.) If most of the students are also first-time chem students, like your D, it would seem reasonable to stick it out if she really wants to. If she's less prepared than the others, my inclination if it were my kid, would be to transfer. It's unusual, at least in my experience, for sophomores to be in AP Chem.</p>
<p>S took AP Chem in 10th grade (didn't take general chemistry). It's pretty common to take AP Chem. in 10th grade around here. Sometimes, the AP teachers make the first couple of tests/quizzes difficult in the hopes of weeding out the class. This could be the case with your daughter. I wouldn't worry about her high C on the first test especially with 1/3 of the class scoring below her grade.</p>
<p>Our h.s. would like high achieving kids to take AP chem w/o taking honors chem first. (AP bio 9th, AP chem 10th, AP physics 11th). We allowed D to take the AP Bio w/o the honors bio because I have a bio background, and she was a straight A student through middle school. However, I tutored a great deal (got a 1st time AP teacher who was overwhelmed). My D got an A and a 5 on the exam. However, against GC's advice we had her take honors chem before AP chem. Our thinking was that she wants to major in a math/science career and it wouldn't hurt her to have as much background as possible, putting her into a better position for college (even though she scores 4's and 5's on science AP's, she won't opt out of her intro classes). We've also noticed that she flew through her AP chem w no trouble and passed the exam with a 4, no prep time. Very few of her peers who took AP chem solo passed the exam. She's also setting the curve in AP physics, having had honors physics first. </p>
<p>Every kid's different, but that's what's been working for our D.</p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>Here, while it is not REQUIRED, it is strongly advised to take the honors science class first and then the AP in the same subject as a second year. While there are 1 or 2 students that I am aware of that skipped straight to the AP class it is highly unusual. Our school averages a 4.6 on its AP Science tests (and everyone in the AP class has to take the test - so they are not cherry picking just the good students.)</p>
<p>Would it make sense for her to drop back to general Chem and then take AP next year or take chem at a JC over the summer? Is there an Honor Chem class she could take?</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses so far. D's HS doesn't offer honors in Chem or Biology. Either regular or AP. She took the general biology last year. It was so easy that she didn't really have to study that hard. She was the science team captain in middle school and won some sort of prize in science last year (HS freshman). I was shocked to find out her scores on the test, and more schocked that the teacher tried very hard to pressure students/parents to consider withdrawal... It's all he was talking about during the meet the teacher session!</p>
<p>Does your daughter have any ideas regarding why she did not score better on the test? It does sound as if the teacher is trying to drop the weaker students, but future tests might not be any easier. A tutor wouldn't hurt, no matter what your daughter ends up doing, and seems like it might be a good idea if she sticks with the class. Assuming a lot of the students who scored lower than she did drop the class, she might have the LOWEST score among students who remain. Even if she does better on future tests, she may have a lot of ground to make up, grade-wise, relative to other students. In other words, she may need to be among the highest scoring students on some of the remaining exams to end up with a good grade overall. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, as I have no idea how the teacher's grading scheme works. If she does have to outperform her classmates to make up for a rocky start, a tutor could be a big help.</p>
<p>My S's AP Physics teacher in 11th grade last year and his AP BC Calc teacher in 10th grade really put the fear of God into us too and the kids, telling them there was no shame in dropping back to the regular class. I think it's partly because there is pressure on the teachers for their students to do well on the AP exam, so they are trying to weed out those who might not do so well. If your D wants to go for it, I think you should let her. Good for her! (my S did just fine in both of those classes and got 5's on both AP's)</p>
<p>OP, do you worry about the possibility of your DD getting a B in the class? If you do, the first thing you and your DD need to figure out mathematically, could she pull her grade up above 94?</p>
<p>How much time do you have before the window closes on making a change?</p>
<p>I wouldn't push the panic button just yet.</p>
<p>I think you should talk to your daughter and see if she feels she can improve on the next test. i.e. is the material just too hard or does she feel o.k. with the class? Also, I think it is better to have regular/honors chemistry before going to AP chemistry. Is there a different AP or some other good class she can take? If she is only taking one AP class, maybe it is ok to stay with it. However, if she is taking multiple AP classes, I suggest dropping the class if your daughter thought the test was really hard. Tutors are fantastic, but expensive.</p>
<p>I wouldn't get a tutor, and certainly wouldn't encourage withdrawal, on the basis of one test.</p>
<p>It's not a good idea, imo, to withdraw after one, one suboptimal test. It's also not a good idea, imo, for an A student to withdraw the instant she scores below an A on a test. Resilience, tenacity are very important imo, especially in college.</p>
<p>I'm glad and impressed that she would like to stay and try. I'd support her in that decision. Does she want a tutor? Given that she did not take General Chem, I would probably suggest a tutor if her grades didn't improve reasonably soon to something more fitting to her overall ability. I wouldn't do that on September 8, though.</p>
<p>I can't add much about AP Chemistry because our hs doesn't offer any AP science classes other than Environmental Science, only standard and honors. But I wouldn't drop the class based on one test only 10 days into the semester. How many other tests are there? If there are many, then one shouldn't count for all that much.</p>
<p>Would your daughter be OK with getting a B in the class? IMHO, getting a B in this class as a sophomore, and without taking regular Chemistry first, will look very good. If she wants to stay, I would say go for it. My D took AP Psychology as a sophomore (and the school discourages this but the teacher was OK with it). Always made A's (except for math), got a C on the first test, and thought about dropping the class, but decided to stay. Wound up getting a B first semester, A second semester, 5 on the AP exam with no prep. It was just a period of adjustment.</p>
<p>It might be worth looking into buying a companion study guide with answers for your D's textbook. Just google the ISBN of the book and add the words study guide. We got the study guide for my sons chemistry class and it has questions and answers for every section of the book. It would allow your daughter to test herself after each section and get help if she needs it. It sounds like this teacher is trying to weed out the kids who might require more help or will be struggling with the class. If your D feels comfortable continuing in it I would let her.</p>
<p>I agree that a first test is not good enough to base a decision on. When is the next test? Can she still drop down if, after the next test, she still struggles or would it be too late? Can she make up for the lack of prior knowledge with some extra work?
Is there some reason why she must take AP chemistry as a sophomore (besides the feeling, very likely justified, that regular chemistry is too easy)?For example, she could study some chemistry on her own during the summer if she does not want to spend a whole year in regular Chem, then take AP-Chemistry as a junior. </p>
<p>
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getting a B in this class as a sophomore, and without taking regular Chemistry first, will look very good.
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</p>
<p>I disagree. It depends on where the student applies eventually. Some will scrutinize the transcript and note that the B was earned in sophomore year, and many will not. And even when it is noted, depending on which college the students applies to, taking AP Chemistry in sophomore year will not be all that impressive to begin with. Finally, the fact that the student did not take regular Chem prior to taking AP-Chem will most likely not register. Lots of students take summer classes that do not show up on the transcript. </p>
<p>Much as I dislike focusing on grades (and I never advised my S to do so), GPA may be very important for college admission and scholarships down the line. It is something to take into account.</p>
<p>My concern in the OP's case would be multifold. Perhaps the teacher feels the class is too large or that some students are not prepared and is deliberately weeding them out, for more convenient class size. That could make for an unpleasant year if the teacher continues to feel either overwhelmed or annoyed with the prgress of some students. Or maybe it really is difficult to take AP chem without any high school chem background and the workload will have a negative effect on the OP's daughter in her other classwork--definitely not a good scenario if it will bring her other grades down or make her feel unduly stressed. </p>
<p>I would try to find out what the prevailing practice is for strong students. I would also suggest that if the daughter really does want to pursue this program and finances permit, a tutor be arranged. (My daughter's experience in honors physics, for example, was very challenging, and a few sessions with a good tutor during one of the more challenging phases was very helpful both for her grade and and for her overall understanding of the material and her sense of ability to cope.) </p>
<p>It is interesting to see the varied ways in which schools handle AP classes. At my children's very college-prep-oriented independent school kids take an AP science senior year after taking a bio/chem/physics sequence in the preceding three years; senior year they choose which if any of those three they want to take as an AP. The three sciences are offered in regular and honors form, and you have to be admitted to the honors classes on the basis of past achievement and the school's estimation of chances of success. Students are not locked in to honors or regular from year to year--preference and grades allow for flexibility on both sides. The honors science classes cover the material more quickly and sometimes in greater depth--they are more work and more intense, but kids who take the regular science courses and do well routinely take AP sciences senior year just as the honors science kids do (bio is believed to be the easiest of the three AP sciences at that particular school). AP science classes senior year are open to all, but I am pretty sure they carry the prerequisite that students have taken the underclass science course prior to the AP.</p>