DS was doing OK freshman year until the last quarter. He is required to take Calculus for his major. Math is his achilles heel, and he knew it was going to be a struggle. He enrolled in a math group tutoring sessions, but he’s not sure if it really helped him. He pulled a B- for first quarter Calc. He started off strong the second quarter with an A- on the first midterm. Unfortunately, he barely passed the second midterm and bombed the final. The second quarter Calc class is the most failed class at the University. It is notorious for having very high fail rates (upwards of up to 50%) in part because it is a weeder course for engineering/comp sci majors. Unfortunately, there are many non-engineering type kids who are required to take it. He knows kids that have retaken the class and some who have taken it for a third time. Having a good math professor can factor into passing the class as well as how the prof will curve the class for the midterms and finals. Some will curve and others will not. Everyone takes the a common final issued by the math department. DS will likely end up with a D+. He has four options at this point:
- Retake the course over the summer. He is not allowed to retake it at a different institution. It will run five weeks so it will go very quickly.There are several prof teaching with one that has extremely good reviews on ratemyprof. Most math prof. for this course have either average or terrible reviews. His D+ will be replaced with the new grade, but the D+ will remain on the transcript just not factored into his GPA. Mentally, he said he's not ready to go back and doesn't think this is an option. He really misses home.
- Do not retake. He needs to confirm with his advisor, but he doesn't think the D+ will preclude him from taking courses
that require it as a prerequisite ( I believe there's only one course in his major that requires calculus as a prerequisite). He would still get credit toward graduation. It would take a hit to his GPA, but not by much. He has about a 3.4 cumulative (assuming he has A's in his other courses this quarter) and not replacing the D+ will bring it down to about a 3.3. It would bring his major GPA to about a 2.8.
- Retake over the fall. He would have to roll the dice in terms of which professor he would get. He is not allowed to re-enroll in Calc until the first day of class in which case most of the "good" or "easy" professors would have full classes and would probably leave him with a less desirable choice of professors.
- Retake at a later time in the next two years. The problem with this option is that he would have forgotten most of what he has learned.
I know he would prefer not to have to retake the class. His fear is that retaking it would only lead to a C grade, or he could fail it again. He’s also concerned that if he doesn’t retake it, it would affect his ability to find an internship or job later as well as affect his chances when applying to graduate school( he’s thinking about pursuing an MBA five years after college). My thoughts are that most employers don’t ask for transcripts so as long as his grades continue to be good, it likely won’t affect his chances of employment. As for graduate school, since it’s freshman year, maybe adcoms might put less weight on that grade and he might be able to explain it as an adjustment period for him. If he does plan to apply to graduate school, he says that he will retake the class at a a community college at a much later date (i.e. after college).
He’s at a loss as to what to do. What do you guys think would be his best option?
I find it hard to believe that a freshman with a D+ in one of his classes has a 3.3 and will have a 3.4 if it gets replaced. That 0.1 GPA difference is not mathematically sound, assuming that the calc class is a one semester equivalent in terms of credits.
Does the University run on a quarter system: if so how many quarters/year do students normally enroll in (3 or 4), and how many credits per quarter? How many credits was the calc class in which he earned a D+?
Any chance this is Pitt? If so, I’ve heard that the night classes don’t take the group final. Might check that out (assuming this is Pitt…)
My MBA program back in the dark ages required calculus.
Just saying.
I think he needs a sit- down with his academic adviser. To me, the issue isn’t the grade- the issue is- does he understand calculus? If he’s going in to a major which requires it, then there’s likely a reason. And if he has some math issues, and his major requires stats-- there is that pesky math again. My B-school had a two sequence statistics requirement, and I was the least quant person in my entire class I think. But if you couldn’t pass, no MBA.
So I think he needs to talk to his adviser. There are more issues here than just a grade. If he’s heading for a major, and even contemplating a grad degree which is math heavy, he needs some guidance from someone at his university. And the GMAT is math intensive as well…
Yes. He will be calling his adviser tomorrow. He is a marketing major, and he is aware that he will need to take stats and accounting this coming year. The intro to finance course is the only class that I am aware of that requires Calculus as a prerequisite. Hubby and I also went to B-school. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember using much,if any, calculus in my classes.
Macroeconomics at my B school required calculus if I remember correctly… or at least one of the required courses in the econ sequence.
Accounting is pretty basic math.
Yeah I had to take Calc for my MBA and I only had math for nonmath majors and stats in undergrad. I eeked our a C hating every single minute of that class. I too would tell him to ask his advisor. If the D is passing and there is no next level math class he might be ok taking the hit to the gpa and stay in his major but the advisor ought to be able to tell him if he should repeat or if his major requires a C.
I would vote for a retake in the fall but hopefully he can have some time to rest before signing up and even having to think about it.
On the larger issue, is math going to be an issue for him in his marketing major? Is he strong in writing and other humanities skills? He doesn’t have to major in marketing in order to work in that field. For instance I know English majors working in marketing.
Was this a “business calculus” class or more of a general calculus course? Since the S appears to be a business major, I’m assuming the former. In that case, maybe the D+ will suffice. Otherwise, this is Calculus lite and there is no reason or excuse for why he should have a poor grade.
It is not calculus “lite”. It’s the second quarter of single variable calculus. There is no separate calculus course for business majors. He is thrown in with engineering and comp Sci majors.
Yes. He is an excellent writer and tends to do well in humanities courses. He was not interested in majoring in English and figured that marketing was the least math heavy of all the business majors. He’s completed Micro and macroeconomic with an A- and B-.
@compmom - I’m hoping that math will not be an issue for him with his major. The only other courses that would involve any type of heavy math would be finance, statistics, and management science. I’m terrible at math, but I don’t recall any of these classes be an issue for me when I was in grad school. Accounting is just basic math and even with statistics, I don’t recall it being extremely difficult.
Marketing is actually quite math intensive (these days) with the introduction of big data/analytics. Not talking about his degree- but actually working in marketing. I hire a lot of marketing folks from entry level up to SVP and the disciplines they focus on require a lot of math. The days where a marketing person could make a good living tinkering around the edges of market research are rapidly fading. Companies want to see metrics on everything-- and that means having marketing people who can do a deep dive on the numbers.
International Business, HR/Org/Talent management are going to be less math focused than marketing, if his college offers tracks in those. And most statistics classes these days are going to have a programming component- so if he doesn’t have a lot of exposure to programming that could be a hurdle as well.
My advice is not to retake if he can get away with it if it is prereq class for just one class in his major. And if he is at a big university I would just have him go to lectures not formally taking the class next semester and follow along.
How’d he do in the first quarter? (Maybe that’t the issue – his fundamentals are weak.)
I have no doubt that all top MBA programs will be looking at that Calc grade.
When my son was looking for internships lots and lots of them wanted transcripts and GPAs above 3.0 (and sometimes even higher). He wasn’t in marketing though.
Personally I’d retake, but then my name is mathmom.
I would talk to him to help him learn
1 - A d+ is really enough to count as his math credit (it wasn’t in my school and I wasn’t a stem/business major)
2 - his lack of knowledge won’t hurt him in understanding additional coursework
3 - the grade won’t affect grad school without retaking it as an undergrad
4 - he is figuring out his gpa correctly
5 - not to take rate my professor so seriously - he may love a professor someone else dislikes.
- another professor may not teach a way that helps many others but it may be the way your son needs to learn
6 - know for sure what his grade is before panicking
7 - have him talk to someone in the field to learn how calculus is used/not used
8 - see if he can talk to a hr person that hires for marketing positions (not to apply for a job) and get honest feedback
For talent management, wouldn’t there be statistical analysis like in marketing, since talent management involves marketing to prospective employees?
UCB-Yes and no. Employee Relations is a field within Talent Management which has some quant stuff (if you are the person at your company in charge of monitoring/resolving Worker’s Comp claims and handling employee disputes there will be some math- but “budget” math, not analytics). Recruiting and succession planning will require quant skills at the top (the Chief Human Resources Officer for example) since those jobs are mostly analytical and leading various departments such as comp and benefits which are math intensive. But lower level recruiting jobs typically don’t require anything past HS math.