D in danger of flunking out

Parents Forum
1

<p>Freshman D called me about a week ago telling me that she is not happy at her school and wants to transfer to a school in our city. Midterm grades came out yesterday and she will probably not be allowed to continue in her major at her current school. She is required to maintain a minimum 2.5 in her major in order to take sophomore level courses next year. She just made that first semester, but her mid-term grades for second semester are 1.5 in her major. Even if she is able to get them up, the requirement goes up to a 3.0 overall in her major in order to take junior level courses, and there are limited spots so she would probably be one of the first ones cut from the program if there aren't enough spots. Overall grades are also below 2.0 so far for this semester, so I think transferring is also unlikely. The school she wants to transfer to is also more than three times what we are paying right now.</p>

<p>I am confident that the reason she is not doing well is because she is spending more time on the phone and visiting on weekends with her at-home boyfriend than she is studying. I suspect he is also the reason for the desire to transfer since she has not researched the other school at all.</p>

<p>I am now trying to figure out the right thing to do as a parent. I want her to get a degree at some point, but I can't help but think that continuing at any school right now, including community college, will just be more of the same. She'll just be spending more time with her boyfriend. I suspect her father will want to cut her off completely. I would be fine with that if I felt it was the most likely to get her to appreciate education and get her back on track. </p>

<p>I know that others have been through this. Did you use tough love and cut off all financial support? Send them out on their own, but give them some assistance to help them get started? Or let them stay at home, but start charging them for rent, insurance, to ease them into independent living? Did whatever you did work?</p>

2

<p>I told my oldest D, if she's not in school full-time she better have a full-time job with a full-time salary to pay her own bills. </p>

<p>One of my daughters wanted to commute to a nearbly college but have us pay her rent for an apartment. We emphatically told her "hell no." If you attend a school close enough to commute and you're not living on campus, we are not paying for an apartment (for her to share with a boyfriend or roommate). It takes tough love. You've got to draw a line in the sand and make sure she understands the consequences of stepping over the line.</p>

3

<p>I've been in your position -- older S got a .46 (no typo) average his first semester in college. With S's approval, H flew more than 1,000 miles to be with S during a meeting with S's advisor, who moved heaven and earth to give S (an extremely bright student who was an incoming star at the school) an opportunity to flourish.</p>

<p>Didn't work. S then flunked all courses second semester, dropped out, got a job far from home, and has never been back home or to college. Later, we learned that S --who had been a nerdy, stay at home person when he was in high school -- had blossomed into a cool big time partier in college.</p>

<p>So-- based on this experience, my advice is for you to tell your D that if her grades aren't acceptable (be specific about whatever your standard is. Personally, I wouldn't be accepting anything under a 2.5 from a capable student) this semester, you will not pay for college until she goes to college on her own dime for at least a semester or year and gets grades that meet your standard.</p>

<p>I also suggest telling her that she can't live with you at home rent free unless she's in school full time-- and given her current grades, she'd need to be paying for that schooling. If she's not willing to do that, then let her know that if she wants to be at home with you, she'll need to be working fulltime and paying rent. And when she lives with you, she'll be expected to follow the family's rules.</p>

<p>This system worked with younger S, who got major senioritis in high school and almost didn't graduate. H and I told him we wouldn't pay for his first year of college. S would have to pay himself and earn grades that proved we wouldn't be wasting our money by investing in his education.</p>

<p>S lived at home for a year -- paying rent, following the rules -- while working as an Americorps volunteer. Then, he went off to the expensive college that he had picked. He did get some merit aid, but also was carrying hefty loans (co-signed by us). </p>

<p>He has loved college, has been on deans list, active in productive organizations, and also has made good friends -- nice, high achieving students who also appreciate college for serious reasons. </p>

<p>Please realize that you can't force your beloved daughter to straighten up her academic act, but you can make it very clear to her that if she messes up, she will have to pay the consequences. That's the way life works, and we're being good parents by allowing our students to reap the messes that they sometimes sow for themselves.</p>

4

<p>Sometimes, despite our best efforts to protect our kids, they just need to go out and learn their lessons by living with the consequences of their (very) poor decisions. All you can do is follow Northstarmom's advice for the following semester and then leave it up to your daughter to decide what she will do. Honestly, it is not the end of the world if your daughter ends up flunking out and taking a year off. Not exactly what you hoped for, but worse things can happen. If she ends up leaving the school, try to arrange for a way for her to go back (in a different major, if necessary) after a year without having to be re-admitted, unless the readmission is not the type that requires a particular academic GPA to get back in. Good luck and try to remember that illness and death are BIG problems, this is simply a little bump in the road.</p>

5

<p>The "silver bullet" here is called maturity. It's been my experience that people have to grow into that. Some grow into it early, others .... Other than giving her a good shove, i don't know that there's much else to be done.</p>

6

<p>It sounds as though both transferring and staying in her current major are not going to be options for your daughter because of her low GPA.</p>

<p>But staying in her current college and switching into a different major might be. Perhaps she should be talking to academic advisors at the college about that possibility. She also needs to find out what action, if any, the college plans to take as a result of her grades. Will she indeed flunk out? Or will she be placed on probation? Or will something else happen?</p>

<p>Once she has this information, she will be in a better position to make a decision about what to do next semester.</p>

<p>Have you ever set a GPA standard for her? If not, and if 1) she is not going to flunk out immediately, and 2) there is some major at her current college that she would be willing and able to transfer into, it might make sense to support her at that college for one more semester -- but with a reasonable GPA standard, such as 2.5. </p>

<p>Pulling the plug on her with no advance notice seems a little harsh -- especially since she's about to encounter some harsh consequences without your intervention -- such as the impossibility of transferring to another college and of being in the major she wanted.</p>

7

<p>The university will probably be willing for her to stay as a student, just not in her current major unless she retakes the freshman courses. I suggested to her a couple of weeks ago when it was obvious she was struggling in these classes that she might want to consider another major, but she was not interested. She said that it would get better next year when the classes are more in the area that she is interested in.</p>

<p>We had multiple talks with her first semester about getting her grades up. She ended up with a 2.5 in her major, but slightly over 3.0 overall. So we thought things were getting better. She had been talking about wanting an apartment next year. We had wondered if she was planning on having BF move in, which we would not be willing to pay for. Then she hit me with this transfer thing last week. I wasn't thrilled at the time. I'm even less thrilled now that I know about the GPA. Of course, I doubt that they will want her now.</p>

<p>As for her living at home as long as she follows the family rules, she has problems with that. She thinks she and BF should be allowed to share a room in my house. No way! Apparently his mother does not have a problem allowing this. Consequently, she hasn't spent a night at home since Thanksgiving. Maybe we should have already cut her off, but I was willing to pay for college as long as she was doing alright as a student.</p>

8

<p>Have you asked her why she thinks that she is not doing well? Not that you will necessarily get a straight answer from her, but sometimes parents make assumptions about why their kids aren't performing that aren't necessarily true.</p>

<p>As I have the opposite bias of most other people in this forum, I am not a big fan of yanking tuition if it's at all avoidable. Stressing about how one is going to pay is not conducive to doing well. However, I think it's reasonable to insist that she take advantage of academic resources that are available (tutoring, academic counseling, etc). I also think it's reasonable to make her arrange her own housing, and possibly even the price difference between schools, if she transfers.</p>

<p>I think she should look into different majors, really. Especially if she's doing better in her non-major classes.</p>

9

<p>That's a tough one. If she wanted to stay at the school, a major meeting would be in order with her rethinking the courses to take next term, and laying off some of the major courses to get herself on even keel. Since she does not want to stay at the school, it may not be a wise move to push her into going there. A leave of absence to rethink the situation may be a wiser move. If she wants to go to a less expensive school to prepare herself better for some of her courses, while living at home and then apply to another school or consider returning to her original school, that would be an option. Unless you are happy to pay the extra cost of another school for her to have this second chance, it may not be a wise investment to make, even if she can get into this school with current grades.</p>

<p>My son's girlfriend found herself in a quandrey of this sort. She actually did not make the cut for a selective pharmacy program she wanted at her original school. Her grades were satisfactory, but she just was not among the top candidates. She decided that she wanted such a program more than she wanted to stay at that college, so she came home on leave, took some beefing up courses at a local college while she worked part time at a pharmacy as a tech, and reapplied a year later and was accepted to such a program with her greatly improved transcript. She did not return to her original school. Now in her case, she was not failing courses, but just did not get into the program she desired and was going for another chance at that. </p>

<p>I am inclined personally to give kids a second chance, but the stipulations would be much more structured than the original go at college. This is really a family decision to make.</p>

10

<p>" The school she wants to transfer to is also more than three times what we are paying right now."</p>

<p>Why should parents pay that or anything if a kid's gpa is horrendous? Why should a parnet continue to pay for tuition at the student's current school if the student is flunking?</p>

<p>That's why I suggest pulling the tuition and having the student support themselves or send themselves to community college. After the student proves they are worth the parent's investing in -- by getting decent grades for at least the equivalent of one fulltime semester, then it would be worth it for the parent to continue to help with tuition.</p>

<p>Having to have some skin in the game will make a student either shape up or act on their real desires, which in many case have nothing to do with the academic side of college. If a student wants to basically have a good time with their friends, then let them have that lifestyle while working full time and supporting themselves.</p>

11

<p>AdvMom, We are in a very similiar situation. S1 got a .30 (that's right 4 F's and 2 D's) the first semester. He was dealing with death of two friends and basically spent most of the semester sleeping thru classes or going to class but not getting homework done. </p>

<p>Our first inclination was to refuse to let him return for Spring semester. After thinking about it, we decided to give him another chance. He is on academic probation this semester. If he does not raise his gpa to the requirement for continuing enrollment, he will be suspended for a semester. In lightof what he was dealing with in the Fall, we decided to let him go back and prove himself. If he fails again , it will be the university suspending him (for a semester), not us. </p>

<p>His advisor has been great. Your D should get in touch with her advisor to discuss the options. S's advisor made him realize that it was not too late to succeed. His school allows three "grade replacements" for 1000 or 2000 level courses in which the student has failed or made a D. The student retakes the class, submits the grade replacement form and the new better grades replace the old failing grades. The bad grades still appear on the transcript but are not figured into the GPA.<br>
Grade replacements could be the ticket for your D if her school offers that option and she decides she want to stay there.</p>

<p>S is retaking three classes this semester and hopes to get the cumulitive gpa he needs to continue. He will also take a couple of summer sch. classes to give it a boost too.
So far he seems to be on track this semester. After the debacle of the first semester, I think he is getting the picture of what's required to be successful. Sometimes it takes a kick in the b*tt. I am cautiously optimistic. </p>

<p>One difference in our situations is that S2 loves the school he is at and desperately does not want to return home to live and go to CC.</p>

12

<p>"AdvMom, We are in a very similiar situation. S1 got a .30 (that's right 4 F's and 2 D's) the first semester. He was dealing with death of two friends and basically spent most of the semester sleeping thru classes or going to class but not getting homework done. </p>

<p>Our first inclination was to refuse to let him return for Spring semester. "</p>

<p>Your situation is --as you also have indicated -- different from that of the OP's D, who doesn't seem to have had a trauma causing poor grades like your S experienced.</p>

<p>In your S's situation, some would have advised bringing him home for a semester, not to punish him, but to ensure that he got the psychological that that he may have been in need of. Having two friends die in a short period would be difficult for even mature adults to handle.</p>

13

<p>The question I have is - what action has your daughter taken? Has she made any efforts to transfer to the school closer to home? </p>

<p>I agree with the advice that you and your husband have to determine a GPA cut off point, below which you will not pay. However, in all fairness, your daughter should have at least a semester in which to try to bring it up to that point. Dropping that bomb right now, with the end of this semester as the measurement point will only, justifiably, tee her off. </p>

<p>If she has not taken any action toward a transfer, then let that be. Talk is cheap- action counts. But, I would definitely set the ground rules regarding GPA with her ASAP. Let her know, she has one more semester to shape up. </p>

<p>The school will do their part in putting her on whatever probation, disciplinary actions they do. Let them. If she wants to stay there, she will have to talk with an advisor, who can help her change majors and/or figure out the way to stay in school. </p>

<p>I would also ask her why she thinks she is doing poorly in her major- without being chastising, try to help her see that time spent with BF activities and goofing off are a part of the problem.</p>

14

<p>Been there, done that.
But we set our conditions up before applications were sent.
We'll pay so long as we are financially able, you take Stafford loans only. You finish, our investment is our gift to you. You drop out, or get kicked out, etc. you owe us all we have invested to date. If you get merit aid, we expect you will meet the conditions to keep it, if not, you owe us that portion.</p>

<p>Our child had a 1.1 one semester, but the school offered a 'boost your GPA out of suspension and into probation' opportunity during the summer. Like PackMom, we wanted the school, not us, to call the shots. We offered the funding for this option. Child accepted and continued to progress, not always easily, but managed to graduate 'on time! over budget!'.</p>

<p>Sibs, so far have kept their merit aid, though one had to submit a successful appeal.</p>

15

<p>I have seen many friends feel suckered when they kept paying and their kid kept playing...and not finishing up with a degree.</p>

<p>I have two friends who have just gone through the Christmas blues with their eldest kids and both are now on their own- own dime, own decisions. Both families offered to pay again when the kid has proven that university is where the kid wants to be and that the kid is ready to work hard and get some minimum GPA (2.5-3.0 seems to be the range)</p>

<p>I told my kids we would pay as long as they were on track, but if they lost Academic merit awards due to GPA issues, they would be taking loans for that portion.</p>

<p>So far, so good, but there were bumps and one did actually have to regroup and reapply herself anew.</p>

<p>It sounds like you have two issues- college & success & money AND behaviour plus family values. Can you keep them separate? I would not be inclined to pay 3x the cost unless DD had proven she was ready and if she wants to transfer because she is not getting it done where she is, why should she merit your financial investment.</p>

<p>The behaviour thing is tough, you have a right to your rules & your standards, she is an adult and can do her own thing (not under your roof) but if her actions are frustrating you, you are not required to pay for her lifestyle, but I would try to keep that apart. Is she doing her job on the college stuff or not and try to approach that entire aspect by itself, not muddying the waters with the other issues. She will use that as a weapon</p>

16

<p>How confident are you that she actually has the study skills necessary for success? In college, the expectations are greater. Nobody's going to be holding your daughter's hand or giving her extra credit for a pretty decorated folder on a history paper. She is expected to manage her time and her schedule for herself.</p>

<p>Lots of students have girlfriends or boyfriends in another city and nevertheless succeed in their classes. Might the time with the boyfriend be the symptom rather than the cause of her problems? If the boyfriend were out of the picture, might she still have trouble with time management?</p>

<p>Does she know how to take notes and study for tests? I know, I know, those sound like obvious skills, but many students come to college without them.</p>

17

<p>At this point, it sounds like the parents are not making any decisions other than trying to encourage their daughter to stay in college, it is the daughter who is deciding to flunk out of her current school and not save herself by changing to a different major. She has been offered a room at home, but will not accept it if her boyfriend cannot live there as well. She wants to transfer to a college that costs three times as much bit is unwilling or unable to attain a GPA that will allow for a successful transfer application. What can the parents do? They WANT to pay for her education, but the daughter appears to be putting other priorities above her education. Should they pay no matter what? That is up to them... maybe give her one more semester to prove herself and then pull the plug if daughter still cannot get a satisfactory GPA? I suggest they see if she can get a semester off from the current school (colleges can be very flexible about this), live at home (without the boyfriend) or live with the boyfriend's family(?!) while attending community college. She may find she doesn't like the boyfriend so much if she is at home all the time. I agree with asking what the daughter is willing to contribute. Kids have a funny way of changing their spending priorities whenever their own money comes into the equation. In any case, this is obviously traumatic for the parents. Hard to find the right balance of tough love and loyal support when our kids go astray!</p>

18

<p>"it is the daughter who is deciding to flunk out of her current school and not save herself by changing to a different major. She has been offered a room at home, but will not accept it if her boyfriend cannot live there as well. She wants to transfer to a college that costs three times as much bit is unwilling or unable to attain a GPA that will allow for a successful transfer application. What can the parents do? :</p>

<p>It seems the parents have been dancing to the D's tune long enough. From what the OP has posted, it doesn't seem like the D has had to take responsibility for any of her concerns. </p>

<p>I don't see any reason for the parents to throw good money after bad to support the D another semester in college if she gets bad grades this time. Telling the D now that she either gets decent grades this semester or they pull the financial plug is, I think fair. It's very naive of the D to think the parents will keep paying for her to get lousy grades while she demands even more of them or to live under his mother's roof. </p>

<p>If she doesn't like getting an ultimatum, she can shape up or find a way to live with her boyfriend on her and her boyfriend's dime.</p>

<p>It takes a lot of never to expect parents to allow one's boyfriend to move in. And what kind of man would want to live under his girlfriend's parents' roof? If that's the kind of man she wants, let her see what it's like to support him.</p>

19

<p>I didn't see the living with the boyfriend part. As far as that goes, it would be an absolute "NO" at our house. As for living at home, there has to be rules and they have to be followed. It is rude otherwise. I agree with Northstarmom.</p>

20

<p>If it were me I would tell my D that she can
1. transfer to whatever school she wants to so long as the cost to us is equivalent to current school AND
2. her GPA meets our standards for continuing to pay that amount (whatever that standard is - YOU set it)
3. live in dorm or apartment, whichever she wants. IF she continues to meet criterion #2, this would be with us continuing to contribute what we currently pay for her housing - no more, no less
4. drop out of school and live at home, but we will not support her financially for that; she will need to work full-time, pay rent (below market is fine), contribute to household responsibilities and follow house rules</p>

<p>If she has a different plan in mind - live in an apt with bf that costs more than #3, transfer to a school that costs more than #1.... perfectly fine with you. She just needs to find a way to make that happen, all on her own.</p>