D Is Torn: W&M versus U of MD -- Honors

<p>Our D has two acceptances, and she is struggling. She has visited/toured both schools. She will be attending admitted students' day at both schools. </p>

<p>One of my jobs is to get some sense of it from you guys. :)</p>

<p>If she goes to W&M, she would be 3 hours away. She would be paying OOS tuition, so $40,000. She doesn't know what she wants to major in. She is a good student, but she worries she will be buried in too much work at W&M. Her idea of a good time is go to a good restaurant with friends. Not a partier; no interest in Greek scene or drinking etc. but is worried she might be bored.</p>

<p>If she goes to U of MD, she pays in-state tuition ($20,000/year). She would be a 30-minute drive away on the Beltway. She finds the school spirit/athletic reputation of MD to be a draw and feels she would be less likely to be bored there.</p>

<p>She doesn't know whether she wishes to go to grad school. Our deal with the money is that we have three kids and one pot of money to pay for college(s). If she wants to go to the more expensive school, that's OK. If she goes to the cheap school, there is no guarantee from us that we will cut her a check for the difference to fund grad school; it depends on what her two younger siblings need for their educations and what the future holds for Mom's and Dad's careers and other unknowables.</p>

<p>Any thoughts on how she should approach this?</p>

<p>Hi, cindy - I remember your thread from last fall, about your d not really liking her safety/match schools, and am happy that she wound up being able to choose between two great places! If I remember correctly, your d was originally looking for a moderate-sized school, not in the middle of nowhere, with a talented/sort of quirky student body (is that about right?). I’m biased in favor of W & M, of course, as the parent of two kids who went/are going there. It seems to me that your d will find what she wants in her academic peers at UMD, especially in the Honors Program, but that she might find a bit more of it at W & M. Is that worth an extra $20K per year? Very tough question, considering how good the less expensive option is.</p>

<p>W & M’s campus does not have a state school feel, as you know from visiting, and it’s smaller enrollment-wise than MD. Some people do see the Williamsburg experience as “boring,” but usually not the people who are living it :). I think there is a great deal of school spirit (Tribe Pride) at W & M, but it obviously offers less in the way of big-time sports than MD. An example: my d was recently telling us about the event during freshman initiation when the freshman class walks through the Wren Building to the campus beyond, where they are greeted by the entire student body. She said she’d never felt anything like it before - a huge outpouring of cheering and welcome. There’s actually a video clip of this on the W & M website: [William</a> & Mary - Convocation 2008: The walk](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/news/multimedia/octhewalk/index.php#popup]William”>http://www.wm.edu/news/multimedia/octhewalk/index.php#popup)</p>

<p>Congrats to your d on having a great choice.</p>

<p>It’s truly her preference. My daughter did not want WM because it’s less than an hour from home. She wanted to go away to school. After admitted students day, she knew it was the place for her. Never quite understood the reputation there is nothing to do in and around the campus. She never gets bored. Nor are the classes to difficult where she is in constant stress. Her thoughts…keep up and there is no need for all night cram sessions. </p>

<p>Attending both days will gain insight what’s best for her.</p>

<p>We are facing pretty much the same hard choice here in PA–OSS at W&M (@$40,000) or OSS at U of Delaware (in the Honors program and with a merit scholarship, total cost about $22,000). Our son will be attending “admitted” days at both schools as well, and we’re hoping that the visits will clarify things for him. Maybe that will be the case with your daughter, too? You can decide not to decide until after the admitted days events! Good luck–our kids are fortunate to have good choices, but it won’t be easy!</p>

<p>my son is also deciding between W&M and UMD Scholar. We are OOS for both schools. He is interested in Biology and wanted to go on to do research in molecular biology or study medicine. It seems that UMD has a great Chem&Bio dept. with a lot to offer and a lot of research opportunities; more than W&M where it seems to be small and into the life science area. Only thing we are bit concern with UMD is the campus and the surrounding area, escpecially with one of the post in that forum.</p>

<p>W&M will change your life. Dont pass an opportunity that wont come around again.</p>

<p>Same problem in NJ. D has presidential scholarship and Honors program at TCNJ and OOS tuition at W&M. She will come out with $40k in loans if she attends W&M vs no loans and Graduate School money from TCNJ. It is a really tough decision. We also have one pot of college money and have S graduating in 2010.</p>

<p>My oldest d came out with $17K in loans when she graduated from W & M in 2005. The monthly payment is just under $200. I think this is a manageable amount for a new grad. More than twice that much is sobering. </p>

<p>I love W & M unstintingly, but I’d hesitate to take on $40K in student debt for it if I had a good alternative instead, which your d does. Especially if grad school is in the picture. Is she planning a career that will pay well? Will you be able to help her repay the loans, if she should need it when she’s starting out?</p>

<p>If grad school is in the picture, and its a field that could pay well with an advanced degree, then the placement that W&M could help her obtain may very well be worth it.</p>

<p>i’m trying to make the same decision (umd vs. w&m). i got a scholarship to maryland, as well as into the college park scholars program, and i’ve been offered a research fellowship grant thing. so all of that is making umd very attractive, even though it was one of my safetys.</p>

<p>I think that one really important question is how your D would handle being 3 hours away and having to be on her own. I have two sisters. One of them would do fine living at a college three hours from home while the other needs to be within 30 minutes of home, because she just needs that extra support. 3 hours isn’t that far, but if your D were to attend WM it would be a significant enough distance that she would be more “on her own” than going to UMD. It is good that you are open to what she wants to do, but I’m sure you know her well enough to know whether she would handle the distance thing smoothly. It is great you are going to admitted students day, I think that it will really help your D in coming to a decision. I wish I could give you a concrete answer of why WM would be better than UMD + scholarship or vice-versa, but the truth is that I can’t. However, what I can tell you as a WM grad is that the school is an amazing place to grow, learn, and succeed. One thing that you will find in common with WM grads is that we commonly feel an undeniable connection with William & Mary, even after we no longer live in williamsburg. Is it the campus, the personal relationships with friends and professors, the spirit of a college community which leans on each other in times of sadness and cheers collectively in times of jubilation, the traditions that could only feel intimate at a school that size, the professor who believed in you and challenged you to achieve excellence, or is it the fact that for the rest of your life you earned the right to say you were a graduate of the College of William & Mary? I think it is a combination of all those things. In the end, your D needs to do what is best for her.</p>

<p>W&M is an excellent school that will offer lots of opportunities in a great community of students. Tens of thousands of dollars after 4 years is very substantial money though. UMD has a good honors program that attracts quality students, and is definitely very far from a “bad” choice.</p>

<p>Frazzled1, Were your d’s loans student loans? Did she go onto further education or into the working world? My d is undecided as to what she wants to do. She thinks possibly molecular biology or business.</p>

<p>

[quote]
It seems that UMD has a great Chem&Bio dept. with a lot to offer and a lot of research opportunities; more than W&M where it seems to be small and into the life science area. [ /quote]</p>

<p>Actually, W&M has a <em>lot</em> of research opportunities for Bio & Chem students, from freshman year on. For example: [HHMI</a> at The College of William & Mary](<a href=“http://web.wm.edu/hhmi/fresh-res-06.html]HHMI”>http://web.wm.edu/hhmi/fresh-res-06.html)</p>

<p>It may be a small LAC, but both programs are strong, (iirc, Bio is one of the most popular major at the school) and W&M has a Med School admit rate that’s far above average.</p>

<p>

They were unsubsidized Stafford loans, which she took out in the maximum amount then available. She did go directly into the working world after college; she’d had a biology fellowship lined up in grad school, but changed her mind a few weeks before graduation. She’s been in pharma sales for the past 2 years.</p>

<p>Full disclosure: we’re actually paying these loans back for her, largely because our financial picture improved once she graduated and we can afford to. But she could afford to, as well. In fact, she’s considering a return to grad school in another field and has enough in her savings already to pay for almost all of it, so she may not need to take out loans for her master’s. That’s the way to do it! :)</p>

<p>Squiddy, Here to Help, SoccerGuy, D applied undecided. She is now thinking Molecular Biology or Business. Two extremes, I know! What do you know about these two areas of study at W&M? Would W&M be the right school for these career choices? Thanks.</p>

<p>ctually, not <em>that</em> far apart. Biology and Business are both very strong programs. The B school is a two-year undergrad program with competitive admissions and a number of pre-requisites - it is possible to take a single “Business” discipline as a minor, however - [The</a> Mason School of Business at the College of William & Mary](<a href=“http://mason.wm.edu/mason/]The”>http://mason.wm.edu/mason/) - so, it would be possible to take a Bio major with a business minor, but the workload would be rather high; remember, W&M is a LAC, so there’s a fair amount of GER requirements that have to be met as well. </p>

<p>“Molecular Biology” covers a lot of ground - the biology major is pretty strong in bio/chem, genetics, cell bio, etc, but not so much into the quantitative aspects, like, say, a “bioinformatics” major, which isn’t offered. The teaching and research component of Bio are what make it a particularly strong offering at W&M. </p>

<p>I believe you wrote, though, about $40K debt after graduation vs. none at another school. Honestly, that’s really hard to overlook - when grad school is a likelihood, especially med school, avoiding undergrad debt is pretty important, at least in my mind. Of course, on the other hand, W&M is particularly effective at getting students <em>into</em> top grad schools, so there’s that …</p>

<p>both of those programs are strong at W&M, and will set your daughter up for success.</p>

<p>Looks like D has decided on W&M as long as the Admitted Students day is what she expects. Thanks for all you replys.</p>

<p>My D is also leaning toward W&M. I think she has given up on UMD, as visiting students’ day didn’t wow her. Alas, she is still hoping to get into Wesleyan off the wait list, which I am secretly hoping won’t happen. I can’t see what makes Wesleyan better for D than W&M.</p>

<p>Let’s hope admitted students’ day at W&M goes well . . .</p>