<p>Agreed, ADad. At least once one's initial gut reaction passes.</p>
<p>The more I read this the luckier I think this Mom is - her daughter could have kept quiet and not mentioned a thing - until she came home one day after turning 18 and had already signed the papers. Perhaps she will do just that - who knows? It happens. </p>
<p>Parents - if your gut reaction to joining the military is "horror" - give yourself a reality check. Do you want your child to surprise you?
I can think of plenty of careers that would cause me to be horrified - being a stripper for one, posing in Playboy would be another.</p>
<p>Serving one's country is an HONORABLE profession. When one chooses (it is a volunteer military after all) to serve one chooses to serve at the pleasure of the President - whom ever that may be. This is not a political profession. These marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen are choosing to serve regardless of the world situation. You folks who would be "horrified" to have your own child in that situation should go to bed and be thankful that other parents are supportive and proud of their child's choice and that there are still some young people out there who are willing to make that choice.</p>
<p>This thread is full of elitism ("not my child") and ignorance.</p>
<p>Um when did I say the US was terrible or make any mention of foreign aid??</p>
<p>And your Uganda comment makes you sound like those idiots who tell people to move to Canada if they don't agree with something the US does. The US is good because we have FREEDOM to say what we believe. I believe the US is a bully, and I don't agree with unprovoked wars. Does this mean that I can't think of other nations as aggressors too? Citizens of both countries are dying for no reason. Get a grip.</p>
<p>"This thread is full of elitism ("not my child") and ignorance."</p>
<p>No, it isn't. With one exception, the posters have been pretty reasonable, with measured reactions.</p>
<p>Hunt, if you're referring to me, you need to grow up. I'm not reasonable because I don't agree with you?</p>
<p>No, it's because you express your opinion in an obnoxious fashion. Most of the posters here are genuinely trying to help the OP. You and JustAMomof4 prefer to pick the fight that I predicted in the second post in this thread.</p>
<p>So refusing to be "politically correct" or sugarcoat what I say is obnoxious? I am trying to help the OP. Most of the responses I've read on here are basically saying the OP should let her daughter join the military and espousing positive aspects of a military career. I guess being the seemingly only voice of dissent makes me obnoxious, unpatriotic, and unhelpful. I read your post, and you didn't seem to be warning against people like me, but rather all of the other people in this thread.</p>
<p>haha, you're being obnoxious because saying "She's throwing her life away" (while you and others of us may believe it's true) is not helpful. The OP doesn't want backup for her position, she wants help with her daughter. Saying, "Forbid the enlistment" isn't helpful because it's impossible.</p>
<p>Let's say all of us, other than the OP's daughter, agree with you. So what do you suggest that the OP actually do about it, to convince her daughter that you're right? There isn't anything, is there?</p>
<p>So the rest of us use measured suggestions, reminding the OP that it is her daughter's life and she has the absolute right to decide how to live it, but here are suggestions that might either (1) help change the daughter's mind or (2) allow the OP to live with her daughter's choice.</p>
<p>And your posts are helpful just how?</p>
<p>"So refusing to be "politically correct" or sugarcoat what I say is obnoxious?"</p>
<p>Um, yes. It's a pretty clear warning sign of obnoxiousness when somebody warns you that he is being "blunt" and not "sugarcoating" his opinions. Note that in your very first post you said that joining the military was throwing your life away. If you can't see that this was obnoxious, you really need a Dale Carnegie course.</p>
<p>It's always helpful to know that people agree with your general position. I wasn't trying to provide any specific course of action the OP should take, rather, I'm trying to say that the OP does still have some measure of power over her daughter's life and shouldn't just give in like many others in this post seem to think she should. If the OP tries to reason with her daughter and her daughter doesn't listen, she needs to resort to some sort of penalties if she doesn't want to give in. That's tough love. I have no personal experience with things like this, so I purposely failed to provide any alternatives, I just am pointing out that they do exist.</p>
<p>I don't think supporting the daughter's want to join the military and providing personal anecdotes as well as info on how her daughter can join various branches of the military is any more helpful than what I'm saying. Obviously the OP doesn't want her daughter in the military, so why are you all encouraging it? Sure, her daughter can choose to do what she wants, but that doesn't mean the OP should just completely give up her position on the matter and support that course of action without a fight.</p>
<p>I'm not going to argue with you about this because I'm not going to change your mind, and you're definitely not changing mine.</p>
<p>Hi Califa,</p>
<p>Boy can I relate to what you are going through! A little over a month ago, I started my one and only thread about my son's decision to join Air Force ROTC (actually, I didn't even know at first which branch he was interested in or that there was much difference).</p>
<p>I will be honest about my initial, gut reaction: military = death in Iraq, a wasted life of a beautiful son with an incredible mind. I couldn't sleep for a number of nights in a row. I initially tried to pretend my S was "just kidding" or that he was just bringing up ROTC in response to my H's declaration that my S would have to pay his entire way through college (even though we ended up comprising that S would have to pay for half).</p>
<p>Before I decided to seek advice from CC posters, I googled "deaths iraq air force." I was instantly guilty and relieved to see that the number of Air Force deaths in Iraq were minuscule compared to Army and Navy (Marine) deaths. Relieved for obvious reasons, guilty because I was humbled and so grateful for the ultimate sacrifice paid by my fellow Americans.</p>
<p>With respect to your situation Califa, your D's chances of dying in the military are probably not greater than (maybe even less than?) her chances of dying in a car accident. As a mother, I can relate to your first instinct of not wanting your D to be harmed. Based on the stats posted, you should be able to sleep easier at night, at least regarding her realistic chances of dying in the military.</p>
<p>When I posted the thread expressing my angst about my son's decision to join ROTC, I was overwhelmed by the responses (mainly PMs) with offers of information and support. I learned the difference between officer and enlisted and the different branches. I strongly believe that similar information would be a great benefit for both you and your D. I would encourage you to use the Internet to find out as much as possible about officer opportunities for women, the differences between the military branches, and realistic accounts of life as an enlisted soldier.</p>
<p>Even after accepting the fact that my S had decided to join the AFROTC, I vacillated between pride and fear. The "fear" aspect kicked up a huge notch when I stumbled upon a brief local news segment about a severely disfigured Air Force member who had feared that his 5-year-old son would reject him. His son did not reject him, but I recorded the segment to show to my son. I watched it back again and noted that it was an enlisted Air Force technician who had been disfigured by a roadside bomb in Iraq. </p>
<p>I'm going to be brutally honest with you, Califa: if I were in your shoes, I would do whatever I could to steer your D towards a military academy or a college with an ROTC program (there are a ton of them; believe me, as a Cal grad with beliefs at the time akin to hahaha's beliefs, I was shocked to learn that there was an ROTC presence on the Berkeley campus!).</p>
<p>Your D sounds like she could have what it takes to be an officer and she will receive a college education as well. When I first started reading about ROTC on Berkeley's campus, a number of the articles I read featured female cadets. They were quite impressive on many levels.</p>
<p>While being an enlisted Marine is a noble path, I too would be very disappointed if my S or D wanted to join the military right out of high school. I agree with other posters who suggested that you speak with your D's JROTC teachers to devise a plan to steer her toward a military academy or ROTC on a college campus. If she still chooses to enlist, then at least you know you tried your hardest to ensure that she gets a college education.</p>
<p>I wish you the all the best, Califa. Please let us know how things turn out.</p>
<p>Haha, if you had posted something like that the first time around, nobody would be slamming you.</p>
<p>Business</a> Training Seminars and Courses from Dale Carnegie Training</p>
<p>Obnoxious means highly objectionable or offensive. I wasn't aware that explicitly stating an opposing viewpoint qualified as obnoxious. I truly believe that joining the military is equivalent to throwing your life away, so why should I resort to euphemisms to express this? </p>
<p>"I don't think a military career is the best life choice, especially in the current war situation and for someone as academically talented, loved, and morally upstanding as your daughter. Perhaps you should expose her to the woes of military life, the possibility of death and stop-loss, the process of murdering others, and reality of PTSD. I'm sure that would be your best course of action in attempting to change her mind. If she doesn't see your point of view, and you refuse to impose any sort of punishments, then just allow her to make her own decision with all the possible information." There was that better?</p>
<p>Haha,</p>
<p>I don't feel you were obnoxious. When my S announced his intention to join ROTC, "throwing your life away" in the military was precisely my first reaction as I described in detail above.</p>
<p>I think Hunt is overreacting. I find his link to "Dale Carnegie" both condescending and entirely inappropriate. </p>
<p>As I mentioned in my prior post, I too once held views just like yours haha. You have every right to keep expressing them and I certainly hope that you do!</p>
<p>Ironically, it's people like my S and the OP's D who are willing to risk their lives to ensure that haha and Hunt have the opportunity to keep expressing their views as they see fit.</p>
<p>"There was that better?"</p>
<p>No, not really. Maybe you'd want to edit the line about "murdering" people. Sorry lex, but I lose my patience with people who try to make a virtue of their bluntness, but who are really just throwing out flamebait. I think my suggestion that haha needs some help understanding how to communicate with others constructively is entirely appropriate.</p>
<p>Thanks, lextalionis. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post, and I think that both your response to your son and your subsequent actions were courageous.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to make a virtue of my bluntness. What I've said is my sincere and honest opinion, and I don't see anything wrong with how I communicated it. This isn't the UN; I don't see why I should be concerned with being diplomatic or conciliatory with my words. We're "communicating" on a message board, and it only seems that my communication skills are challenged when someone doesn't agree with what I say.</p>
<p>Haha, I decided that before I beat up on you any further, I would look to see whether you are a parent or not--I see from other posts that you are a senior in high school. I think you will learn as time goes on that there are helpful and unhelpful ways to express things, and that certain kinds of expression will inevitably lead to a big argument that helps no one. I take back my suggestion that you need a Dale Carnegie course; you will probably learn what I am talking about in the School of Hard Knocks.</p>
<p>Hunt, it was truly not my intention to provoke an argument. I understand where you're coming from, and who knows, maybe I will learn about the types of expression you're talking about, but I do know that I'm never going to censure myself unless it's absolutely necessary. I don't think that a college discussion forum is one of those situations requiring discretion. I say we just agree to disagree and move on.</p>
<p>Hunt - I appreciate your opinions and comments but I am not trying to pick a fight at all - go read my first post. I empathize with the OP.</p>
<p>But -what I said is true - it is elitist to think that "my child" should not join the military because of her station in life, ability to get a college education, gifted-ness, how much her parents love her and her "potential".
Anytime one or one's child is "too good" to serve in an honorable profession - that is elitism. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think a military career is the best life choice, especially in the current war situation and for someone as academically talented, loved, and morally upstanding as your daughter.
[/quote]
This comment is not only elitist but offensive to all of those who are academically talented, loved and morally upstanding who serve. As a parent of a daughter who has all of those characteristics and is choosing to serve - it is offensive to me.</p>
<p>Do you folks seriously want a military rife with immoral idiots?
Wait - you already think that - that is the ignorance part.</p>
<p>It has been said before but many enlisted have college degrees, some even have master's degree's and <em>shock</em> PhD's!
As an officer it is virtually impossible to be promoted to major without a Master's degree.</p>
<p>I digress - Many of you are wondering how to help the OP's daughter. She doesn't need any help. In a couple of years she will make her own decision and either pursue a military career or not.</p>
<p>The military is not for everyone and everyone is not suited to a military life. Some people are suited to it and actually enjoy their military experience and the opportunities they are afforded. None of here on this board know if the OP's daughter is even suited to military life. </p>
<p>I can recommend two very good books - both written by Ivy League grads and their experiences in the military as officers, if you would like to know what "throwing your life away" is really like.</p>
<p>If my child wanted to join the military while in high school- especially when we are at war- when promises are made that potential recruits may not understand the military has no legal obligation to uphold- I would not pre-sign any forms & but I would help them to research the benefits and disadvantages of joining the military, either once they were 18 and had graduated from high school, or as a young college graduate.</p>
<p>I agree it is a difficult place for a parent to be in, particulary during a unpopular war, but while not every career puts a gun in their hand, there are many choices that our kids will make that we would not choose for them.
I think giving them the tools to make their own reasoned decisions, and acting as a sounding board, even if at times we squelch some of our own misgivings, is more appropriate than outright forbidding- as that oftentimes makes the decision that much more attractive.</p>