D wants to jump math tracks for BC calc. Help?

@collegedad13 AoPS encompasses a lot of different math courses. Their core courses are not “hyper competitive.” My ds was not into math competitions at all. (He actually refused to participate in math competitions bc he is not a competitive type personality.) I think you are conflating issues. There are a lot of students on their forums and students who use their competition math prep courses who are very into competition math. But, their core courses themselves are NOT competition math focused.

You are basing your opinion on excerpts as to the content? I know that my ds spent hours writing proofs for all of his AoPS courses. The courses were in-depth problem-solving type work and the exact opposite of a traditional text with pages of repetitive similar problems. Anyone who claims that AoPS “seems like it has lots of problems but not lots of proofs” has no experience with actual AoPS courses. The Larson text has something like 80+ problems per lesson. That is not what what students experience with AoPS.

FWIW, my ds’s math mentor was female and her dd was far more advanced in math than my ds. This is not about male vs female. AoPS is an excellent resource for any student wanting a proof-based math education.

ETA: I agree with @momprof9904 that the AoPS discussion is swerving off the needs of the OP>

Joining the chorus that I still haven’t figured out any connection between AoPS (the regular math curriculum) and competition of any kind - they’re just books written to elicit deeper thought about mathematical concepts. Using the math texts doesn’t involve playing For The Win lol.

I agree completely. I know a certain slow-speed hispanic female who really enjoyed AoPS and was able to further develop problem solving skills, capitalizing on her strengths.

I agree with the others that AoPS not suited for OP’s purpose because summer is short and something a little speedier is needed.

Hi everyone. Thanks for the suggestions. @melvin123 D has over 100 hours of hospital volunteering and will be spending 4 days a week this summer doing research in a lab in the city. I thinks she could use some doctor shadowing,. The BS/MD is a long shot and she knows that. I don’t think its a large part of her desire to take BC, just a little extra motivation. She is committed to trying. If it proves too hard for her and she drops down to AB, that will be fine - I doubt it will impact her self esteem too much. In any case, occasional failure is a good lesson for anyone.

She will be studying from the text book they will use next year. So far, she seems to like it well enough, but there are not enough practice problems with solutions. She really learns best by doing many problems so we are really looking for a workbook, not a different text. I like the suggestions of the AP practice books.

Again, thanks all!

I think the most widely used calculus textbook is probably the wisest and safest choice. The head of AoPS studied chemical engineering in college and then worked on wall street. Thats not really my definition of a math educator. Thats some one looking to make money. And he appears to have succeeded.

I personally think the OP might be better served by doing a more medically oriented EC this summer rather than calculus

AoPS instructors:

https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/how-school-works/instructors

https://artofproblemsolving.com/company/staff

@collegedad13 While I also don’t think the AoPS textbook would meet the needs of the OP’s daughter, I am curious if how you formed your opinion of AoPS? Have you reviewed their textbooks?

HI all,

I really appreciate all the good advice, but would it be possible to create a new thread to debate the merits of AoPS? I don’t think its relevant to us.

In my opinion, the single variable calculus class (AP calculus) for first year college students is the easiest math class.
What makes it difficult is students don’t have the firm reasoning foundation when taking HS classes algebra 1 algebra 2, geometry and trigonometry. Lots of problems in these prerequisite classes are harder than AP calculus problems. If students have the skills to manipulate the algebraic expressions taught in algebra 1, 2, and trigonometry then solving AP calculus problems is a piece of cake. That’s why all the hard math competitions don’t have any calculus problems. They only give math problems at pre-calculus level.

We should not scare kids about the difficulty of AP Calculus. It’s not difficult. We should help kids to have a solid prerequisite for it instead. It’s not necessary to try to learn the AP Calculus during the summer then take the class during the fall (and this should not happen with any subject because students don’t have time to learn twice). It’s better to be prepared for it instead of studying it ahead.

My son took Calc AB in junior year, then took the Calc BC AP exam and did very well. He had heard there’s a lot of AB overlap in the BC exam. He self studied by borrowing a Calc AB/BC prep book from the library. The colleges that accept AP scores/credit should give credit for both AB and BC even though student did not take BC class (but took BC exam)—they look at the score.

Can you afford a tutor to support her if it turns out to be too much on her own?

@gallentjill Not sure if you made your decision.

My D took Algebra II online the summer between 9th and 10th. The purpose was to be on track for IB HL (BC Calc) in the 11th. The GC accidentally put her in regular Pre-Calc in 10th. By the time we realized, a full semester had passed. They allowed us to switch classes 2nd semester. She struggled a bit in honors pre-calc for a few weeks to catch up as they’d been moving faster. Then, there were a couple of topics that she didn’t realize she’d missed until shortly before finals. She ended up doing fine. She’d been sailing through regular pre-calc though. BC Calc this past year ended up being the right fit also. No regrets.

If your child has free time over the summer to address the missed topics, and the teachers are supportive about providing what those topics are, it’s probably reasonable. Better to catch up over the summer than while there are other classes to maintain. Every student is different, so there isn’t a “right” answer. The class of 19 thread made a comment about “pushy” parents, but I think we need to be advocates for our kids especially if they thoughtfully request it.

@peachActuary73 My daughter got permission and was told the topics she needs to catch up. She has started studying a little and seems to really enjoy it. In this case, all the pushing and advocating came from her. Although I did provide a lot of moral support and cookies. Regardless of how it ends up, I’m very proud of her for taking this on.

Could you tell which topics she needs to catch up?

It all depends on the student. My eldest found BC calc difficult whereas my youngest breezed through BC Calc without doing homework as he found it a waste of his time. Calculus and physics are intuitive for him. If it is going to require lots of effort especially senior year I would probably stick with AB. However, if they are going to be bored stiff I would go wiith BC. My child did AP BC, AP Chem and AP PHysics 2 among other AP’s with minimal effort relatively speaking but that is unusual. Alot of very bright kids stumble in these classes for whatever reason.