D20 loves languages, needs big-time FA

You might also think about NSLI-Y if your D is willing to take a gap year. If she’s interested, she would apply both to colleges and NSLI-Y, get accepted to both, then ask her college to defer for a year so she could do the NSLI-Y program. The program is paid for by the government, so no cost to you.

Regarding Barnard, both my D and I loved it when we visited. We were told that it is actually a part of Columbia, in that your degree will read Barnard College at Columbia University. The significance of that is that you can take classes at Barnard or Columbia, it doesn’t matter. But Barnard doesn’t have the first year core curriculum that Columbia has, so you have more flexibility. Barnard is literally across the street from Columbia. To us it seemed like you got all the strengths of a women’s college (networking, collegiality, relevant lectures), while still having pretty much as co-ed an experience as you want (except for the dorms). Even if your D generally isn’t a fan of all women’s colleges, she should take a look at this one because I think she’ll find that it’s different from what she thinks it will be like.

Neither here nor there, but I had also heard that Middlebury’s financial aid isn’t great. Wonder if that’s old info and they haven’t shaken that reputation yet.

One caveat. The Hamilton Korean program is self-instructional. There is no traditional teacher. The course depends on the availability of a native speaker student. Exams are administered by an outside examiner.

Re #41, Vassar’s Korean program (as an example from those included in reply #38), though described in less detail on its website, seems similar to Hamilton’s in principle:

Middlebury’s summer breadloaf language program is off the charts. Not sure if Korean is part of this program. But it is full immersion. 24/7

At any of the schools but especially the smaller ones, make sure to check the course schedule and not just the catalog to see how often the courses are offered. They are most likely only offered once a year, not once a semester, and if you get off sequence it may take a whole year to get back on. Even at larger schools the 3-4th semesters of languages are often only offered once a year at one time. My daughter ran into that at a 10k student school with French. The high level classes where only offered once a year and only one section, so she had to work other classes around it.

Bread Loaf School of English is for graduate study. Middlebury’s Korean program is held at Mills College, in California. See the link in post #39 for more information.

My niece and her husband went to University of North Georgia. He was in ROTC and a Chinese major and spent a post-grad year in China taking courses. Look for Flagship Schools – they are hotspots for critical languages and are sponsored by the National Security Education Program and the U.S. Department of Defense. Many of them are state schools, too.

https://thelanguageflagship.org/content/domestic-program-1

You should give serious thought to how advanced she is already. Many LACS do a great job with instruction because of small class size. But…they “top out” pretty quickly, meaning that in many langauges, especially the more “exotic” ones, there is a 3 or 4 year sequence and that’s it. I have known kids who transferred from a LAC to a bigger university that had graduate programs in their language because of this.

It doesn’t sound like with the languages involved and French being the one she is most proficient in that this is an obstacle, but it’s definitely something to put on the radar.

@gardenstategal makes a good point about possibly topping out.
On the other hand,
a solid 4 year sequence in Chinese/Japanese/Korean may be enough to keep you busy, especially if you’re trying to cover more than one of them, and assuming you’re also taking related courses in history, literature, etc., taught in English. Unless you come in as a heritage speaker (or otherwise very advanced) you’re unlikely to progress very well beyond 2nd or 3rd level in one of these languages without including a significant immersion experience (semester-/year-long study abroad, or 1 or more summers at Middlebury … but probably not at the home college).

One advantage of a larger school, like a state flagship, is that it may be able to offer a greater variety of less commonly taught languages than a small LAC can. That may be important if you want to become an historical linguist or cultural anthropologist. It doesn’t necessarily mean they offer stronger programs in a specific modern language like Chinese or Arabic. However, since some of these language are of high interest to the US government, you may indeed find a good, affordable program at one of the “language flagships” (such as Indiana, Hawaii-Manoa, or BYU for Chinese).

Not to throw a wrench in the discussion but the suggestion of a state flagship outside of SUNY may be a good one. I Just quickly perused UVA because your D mentioned liking the DC area, and they seem to have very broad Eastern Asian language program, not sure on the depth on some of the languages. If eastern midwest colleges is the farthest west you want to go, then UM could be another one. But admission and FA for OOS will be tough, but maybe one OOS flagship may not be bad to add. Good luck!

I think you are in the right track focusing on the top 20 LAC’s. Middlebury in particular has an excellent language program. Don’t just go by “meets 100% of need” designation. Definitely do the NPC for each school, as it will vary dramatically from school to school, even among this group of schools. Also, don’t rule out Smith just yet. I encourage you to go visit. It is an excellent school, with a beautiful campus and is located in a very trendy town.

Most OOS flagships won’t be affordable, but the few that meet full need for OOS students definitely deserve consideration. (That would be UVA, UNC, and UMich, so far as I know, and UMich has an income cap for OOS need-based aid.)

If you qualify for need-based aid at UMichigan, definitely check that option out. It’s fantastic for Asian languages/studies in general and has a very substantial Korean program within that umbrella. And strong in her social sciences interests - strong in everything, really. The majority of students are from out of state, so it has a private-U feel and a great college town. The Residential College within LSA offers a small-LAC-like experience within the large U, and also offers its own intensive language https://lsa.umich.edu/rc/current-students/curriculum/languages.html It really might be worth adding to your d’s list as an option, in spite of its large size, if the NPC looks favorable - she would never run out of coursework and opportunities, and many attest that the real-life experience of the size isn’t as intimidating or impersonal as it sounds. (UMich was never really on my d’s radar, but some of her best friends in her study abroad program have ended up being UMich students who have had some amazing experiences and opportunities there, so maybe it should have been!) UVA and UNC also have terrific opportunities - can be tough admits for OOS but potentially worth a shot.

Also, there’s this https://studyabroad.unc.edu/students/find-a-program/joint-degree-program/

OP here. Thank you to everyone for all the comments and suggestions! So helpful.

We have begun looking at Bowdoin and Michigan based on some of these suggestions, as well as others. She would like to stay within a reasonable distance of home (upstate New York) because transportation costs could be prohibitive at some schools. We have definitely not ruled out Smith, as her counselor recommended, even though she would ideally prefer a co-ed school. But the consortium helps a lot with that, so less of a concern. There is a lot to like at Smith, based on their website, for students interested in languages, and especially Asian languages. Her HS also has a fantastic track record getting kids into Smith, so that looks very positive. The next step is to set up a visit on her next day off.

Some suggested we look at how advanced she is and whether she would top out at some schools. She has a long way to go in her language learning before that becomes an issue at the schools she is looking at. She is furthest along in French, doesn’t plan to continue Latin, and just a beginner in both Chinese and Korean. Chinese in particular is very difficult and would take many years to master.

An important factor for her, with her goals, is to have a good study abroad program where she could take her financial aid with her. I think immersion is really the only way to become truly fluent in any language.

Thank you again for all the suggestions. This is CC at its best!

For a state option, we are looking at SUNY Buffalo (it has Korean!), even though in our situation it would actually be more expensive than most of the meets need schools and is much bigger than she would like. But it’s on the list as a likely and (somewhat) affordable option.

Hamilton administers Associated Colleges in China, a Mandarin immersion study-abroad program. Though also attended by students from other colleges, it might be more accessible financially as a Hamilton student.

For Hamilton’s description of the program, see this link: https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/offcampusstudy/china.

For an independent view, this source provides a brief guide (scroll down to read full content): https://www.chinainsight.info/education/general/231-associated-colleges-in-china-a-hidden-gem.html.

@apple23 We just went to the junior preview day at Hamilton and she loved it, especially the language and study abroad/immersion options. It will definitely make her final list.

Check out Dickinson. It’s one of the best universities for study abroad and it “meets need”.

@Dancingmom518, I would like to talk a bit about your daughter’s extensive involvement with visual art. I believe this will be a strong plus for her at schools that are known for their studio art programs even if she doesn’t intend to major in art. She should be sure to submit an arts portfolio with her application.

Some arts-friendly small LACs that come to mind – in varying levels of selectivity – are Williams, Hamilton, Kenyon, Wesleyan, Skidmore, Vassar and Conn College. (I like Smith a lot too.)

If your daughter liked Hamilton, she should also look at Williams. Williams would definitely be a reach but I think they would be receptive to your daughter’s profile, especially her balance of academics, sports and arts. Her interest in visual art and art mentoring would be a plus. Williams has 3 world class museums on or near campus and one of the best art history programs anywhere. The museums are always looking for volunteers (not necessarily art or art history majors).

I wouldn’t consider Williams a language destination but they do have solid Chinese and Asian Studies majors and an terrific interdisciplinary Global Studies concentration. They offer Korean under their Critical Language Program. Need-based financial aid is excellent. Double majoring is common.

I think you will find that study abroad/immersion opportunities are equally good at most northeast LACs. Students are not limited to programs administered by their own college but can choose from a wide menu of half-year and full-year options.

I wouldn’t consider her math SAT score or lack of calculus insurmountable obstacles, especially since her math grades so far have been excellent. Schools understand and admit lopsided kids, especially if the school has a strong program in whichever way the student leans. I can understand that your daughter’s counselor is conservative, but I think LAC admissions is more holistic than formulaic.

The acceptance rate for female applicants to Middlebury typically settles about three percentage points (~16%) lower when compared to that for males.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Middlebury&s=all&id=230959#admsns