That’s helpful. Thanks.
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Regarding Lake Norman, my comment was intended to reference its entire construction. As an environmentalist would view an expanse of “managed” trees differently from an old-growth forest, an artificial lake will appear different from a natural lacustrine setting.
Colgate, by comparison — and for those interested — resides near remarkable natural lakes, such as glacially carved lakes (The Finger Lakes), exotic lakes (the Green Lakes) and great lakes (the Great Lakes), as well as near a very large, unheralded lake (Oneida Lake).
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Oneida, the closest, is a good 45 minutes away from campus. It does have their famous duck pond though!
Ok I’ll play along in this guessing game…All along, Homerdog has said D doesnt like cold weather. So on paper, I’d guess Richmond or Davidson. However, I honestly believe that when Homer family considers all factors, that the longstanding reputation of the school is going to weigh more and more heavily (and yes I know that all of the choices are fabulous, selective schools). So Im going to narrow it down to Colgate, BC and Davidson. The Colgate campus is one of the most beautiful ive ever seen, so if the Homer family tours on a nice day, I think it’s game over and Colgate wins. If its a cold, cloudy spring day when they visit, then Im going with Davidson.
And if Vandy is an acceptance - I dont think they will turn it down!
Good luck and congratulations!!!
Ps - once your kids are all set, ever thought about being a college consultant? You have done a staggering amount of research!!
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With conventional rounding, the figures would appear slightly different:
Admission Yield Rates, Class of 2024
Davidson: 47%
Colgate: 34%
Boston College: 32%
Lehigh: 22%
URichmond: 22%
Note as well that these colleges reported their profiles at different stages in their enrollment cycles. Data may appear different when Common Data Sets are released.
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Trying to get a handle on why schools yield better than others. Some combo of the school being able to choose best-fit students and being a desirable place to go to school I guess.
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I think another factor might be how similar the competition is.
For example, TCU, SMU, and Baylor are all very similar, in the same region, with very similar admissions rates. A lot of students have the ability to choose between two or all three. If Baylor and TCU either didn’t exist or were a lot more or less selective, I’m sure SMU’s yield would be much higher, for example.
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Admission yield can depend on the level of options an admitted student may have. Wesleyan’s yield, for example, was good, but not great, last year (29.6%). This seems to reflect less on Wesleyan than on the quality of its overlap schools, often other NESCACs and Ivies. The University of Richmond, from your daughter’s choices, also appears to overlap with top-level northern schools, more so than some schools farther south might, such as Davidson. Also, In any figures for the fall of 2024, the pandemic should be considered as a factor.
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I think yield has a lot to do with overlaps. Many of the admitted students will have considered similar options. And none will have been foolish enough to apply to only one school!
Davidson’s location gives it less competition in its "neighborhood " for kids who want that part of the country.
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also yield is tied to % of the class taken in ED.
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While I agree those may factor into yield, I think a greater factor is simply that some universities work very very hard to manufacture a higher yield because that adds to the perceived desirability.
All those schools that track and reward “interest” are doing so as much for yield protection as to make sure the “right” students are offered admission.
FWIW, Wake Forest has a yield of 37.4%, which would place it second on @merc81 's list. Not that it means much in this instance because WFU is now off your list.
Santa Clara is at 17.5% yield.
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Earlier in this “game” it was mentioned that this student prefers warm weather, however IMO this can change if one of the northern schools is the best fit. Does this student mind a rural campus? I don’t remember hearing about this.
I have 2 relatives from the northern suburbs of NYC who recently graduated from Colgate. They had a wonderful 4 years and are doing well. FWIW…I just looked at one of those websites that describes the students at Colgate, and it fit the description of my relatives perfectly.
People keep bringing up BC. While I agree that it’s an excellent school, the comments made by HomerD make me think that BC is not a top contender right now. Will it move up after their visit? Maybe.
My colleague’s daughter is at Davidson. She’s a “smart, regular kid” who was accepted during the ED round. Her mom told me she played field hockey in HS and got a 30 on her ACT. She offered this information (totally unprompted) because she was surprised she got in.
My point is that all of these schools are going to be academically strong, with a range of students. I don’t believe that any one of these schools is going to be SO far above the rest, despite the fact that one may be ranked a little higher.
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I have been following along as when we all started my D21 was interested in many of the same schools and we are from the same part of Chicago.
Davidson was actually the first school my D21 visited last February just before COVID. It was in the running for ED for her. She liked the academic focus but felt like the ‘fun’ factor (i.e. work hard/play hard) was lacking. Ultimately did not apply.
We know a couple of local Chicago ‘burb kids who have gone to Colgate and have transferred out- winter even worse, longer darker then Chicago’s and also fit issues with strong ties among students many who came from same east coast areas.
I pushed for Richmond for her because everyone who has gone that I know loves it. Good mix of academics and fun, nice traditions. Good alumni network and career placement. My D21 did not like it because not strong in her major.
We visited Wake before pandemic- vibe was just off for my D21 and it was one of those tours that I could see she was already crossing off her list halfway through.
These are just my opinions. I’m guessing SCU might fall back in as Cali opens up and seems like a good fit for what your D wants.
My guess is if she gets in to Vandy it will win but I’m also going to say it comes down to Richmond and SCU if not based on everything you have said she wants. Right size, nice combo of academics and fun, dance available, near nice sized towns.
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Wake has the 37.4% yield with 1454 students
W&L has a 38% yield with 459 students
Some factors driving yield:
- ED/EA programs
- Meeting EFC
- Engagement after admission - discussing career outcomes, housing, fin aid, etc.
- Desirability of other options
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this is where I would say fit matters. Some kids love Colgate. Some transfer. Some think Davidson is perfect and for others it doesn’t have enough parties. Etc.
In the past, fit was figured out by staying on campus and meeting students and going to class and the dining hall. Now, 2021 kids have quiet campuses and, if they are lucky, a few students they trust for the real truth about each school.
I’ve asked so many questions on this forum and met a lot of people who have given advice here and via PM and it’s still hard to know. All kids can do this year is gather up what knowledge they can and take a leap. I will say that D is very lucky to have these choices and the differences really revolve around campus, location and vibe. When you see kids transferring out of any school, it’s almost always the social vibe that’s the problem yet that’s the hardest thing to get at this year.
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Yes. This is where we are at. Acceptances are coming in and hard to figure out the vibe from afar. We haven’t done any visits yet but will in April–but like you said not sure how much they will help.
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Homer this is so tough!!!
I am sure that your D has joined student groups. I hope she gets some helpful information. Can you join a few parent groups?
People keep saying that this student will attend Vandy if she gets in. A few thoughts:
- Vandy has a single digit acceptance rate and rejects/WL amazing students all the time.
- This student already mentioned that Vandy might not be the best fit due to the academic intensity.
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Yes. Good idea. She is joining student groups. I think that will help.
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In considering yield as a decision factor, a lot depends on a student’s level of confidence. My relative at Richmond, for example, could not have cared less how other students selected their schools. She saw enough at UR through her two visits to make it an ED choice, and has not looked back since.
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I don’t think “most” kids choose their school by doing overnight visits, eating in the cafeteria, and sitting in classes. I actually think very few do even in a normal year. My D and I probably visited 15 schools and she applied to 12. She never did an overnight and we only ate in 2 cafeterias. Sat in on no classes. She’s at a T100 school. She has close friends at NYU, Santa Clara, BC, and Richmond and none of them did any of those things either. They all visited but they all just did the normal tour and info session. And they are all happy at their schools (except the SCU student who is fully remote). Your family clearly does a deep dive (and I do that with my research at home) but I don’t think doing those things is the “norm” for most kids. We live near BC, BU, and Northeastern and half of the kids we know don’t even tour them before applying. They just apply based on their reputation. Our neighbor accepted BC before ever having an official tour and we live 40 minutes from campus. Another’s friend’s son accepted BU after only driving by it and these were both pre-covid.
I am now touring with my junior and believe me i know it is not ideal. One campus we just visited only had maybe 10 students walking around. But at some point you just have to go with your gut and believe your D will thrive wherever she ends up. If she doesn’t think she will like Vandy, why not just take it off the list? It seems to just be on there because of prestige when you both seem to think she won’t like it. She has awesome choices.
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