<p>Hi everyone!
I'm a swimmer interested in going to a school that is really strong academically, but I don't think my times are good enough to go D1, so I want to go D3. My issue is that I don't know what combination of swimming speed and grades is good to get in to my top choices? Can anyone help me out? PLEASE? My top choices for D3's and Low D1's are as follows:</p>
<p>Amherst
Middlebury
Swarthmore
Washington University in St. Louis
Johns Hopkins
Bowdoin
Tufts
University of Chicago
NYU
Dartmouth
Georgetown</p>
<p>If ANYONE has ANY information on ANY of these places in regards to swimming recruitment, or experiences, please reply and thanks!</p>
<p>Not familiar with swimming at all but I would think you can check times on the league websites from meets and see if you are within those times. Same with grades.
Good Luck</p>
<p>I actually can give you a great deal of insight to this issue, my daughter is currently a freshman swimmer at a great DIII school and went through the recruiting process at several of the schools you list.
If you want to send me a Private Message with some of your times and some of your academics, I would be happy to give you my feedback.</p>
<p>OP ... a few suggestions ... given how short your school list is you can exhautively do a bunch of things</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Check out the school's swim team web pages ... they typically have bios on team members which include current times ... what would be very helpul is if they list HS accomplishments and times so you can compare. </p></li>
<li><p>Your HS coach, graduated classmates, and opponents should know where folks with certain types of times landed (DI, DII, DIII)</p></li>
<li><p>Check out the recruiting rules at NCAA</a> Home Page ... the rules vary by sport and by division</p></li>
<li><p>Finally, while we may be able to help you there is a quicker more efficient way to get a handle on where you fit. Most schools have a "Contact the Coach" ability on the web pages for there sports teams. While there are limits to when coaches can reach out to you and typically limits in the reach of a DIII coach (likely to look mostly locally on their own) ... they can <em>respond</em> to a contact by a prospective recruit. So I'd suggest emailing the coach of all the schools in which you are interested and ask about their programs ... and I'd inlude your stats (both swimming and academic) ... if you're a solid candidate things will take off from there ... if you're not the response will also probably let you know.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I have been talking to the swim&dive coach and Washington University and others, and have found that at a lot of academically-strong D3 schools, the coaches do not have much influence in admissions. They can usually put in a good word for you, but that's about it. Good luck!</p>
<p>My understanding of athletic recruitment at Tufts is that the coach is given a certain number of slots for athletes who they want to give an admissions boost to.</p>
<p>i enrolled at bowdoin about a decade ago with almost identical times to yours. funny. i didn't pursue recruitment at any of the schools to which i applied, but did communicate with the coaches at many of them. in my experience, your times may bend an ear at bowdoin, although in my year, while i was a valuable member of the team, i was certainly not the fastest member, and therefore would have unlikely been given preferential treatment in admissions. i remember that my times weren't sufficiently fast for the ivy league or other D1 schools. friends of mine that were roughly my (your) speed, who enrolled at the likes of dartmouth and brown quickly dropped the sport. it's just far too competitive at the D1 level and absolutely incompatible with an ivy-level education. the NESCAC schools have the best balance of education and sport in my opinion. but amherst and middlebury are two of the top D3 colleges for swimming in the country. it's certainly worth reaching out to them, although i'm unsure if you're fast enough to warrant a bid. </p>
<p>do you suspect you can make it into these colleges independently? even though i was an avid swimmer in high school (it was, by far, my biggest commitment), i didn't pursue the recruitment process in earnest, in large measure because the contact i did have with coaches indicated their interest in me as a student athlete, but never touched on influencing admissions decisions. i should admit, i was more interested to get in based on my academic merit, and so may have half-heartedly pursued the athletic recruitment avenue. if you think you'll need to rely upon your athletic ability to help with your admission to these schools, i say you're most likely to help the teams at swarthmore and maybe even NYU. again, bowdoin, depending on the depth of their team this year, may also be interested. but i think they're "fielding" a much stronger team than when i swam there. </p>
<p>good luck with the schools and with your swimming! do try your best to enroll at a good D3 program, preferably in the NESCAC. with your times, the competition will be intense, but you'll also not overwhelm your education. </p>
<p>Well, I do have strong grades. I'm not the BEST student, but i'm in the top 20% of an EXTREMELY competitive public texas high school. I have a bunch of EC's but I think swimming is really my strongest hook. I am really worried about what you said about your friends dropping the sport. I want to get in to the best school possible, and if swimming can help me that's what I will use. However, i dont really want to drop swimming, I'm not the type to drop it just because i got in somewhere, because I really enjoy it and I think as a college student it would be a great way to stay in shape. So you think that going to the likes of Georgetown or Dartmouth would be too much to do AND keep up good grades?</p>
<p>well, it all depends upon how much you want to swim. my friends didn't think, once they got to college, that a swim program of similar intensity (or greater) to what they had in high school was worth pursuing. again, these all at some of the best colleges in the country but also with D1 swim programs (brown, duke). perhaps you'll think differently. i had some friends who swam at georgetown and dartmouth successfully. i think it just matters what you prioritize. i don't think you should worry about dropping the sport. if you want to keep it in your schedule, you'll find a way to make it work. all i'm saying is that in high school it's fairly easy to underestimate the intensity of D1 programs at schools known for their academics. especially the ivy league. swimming in the ivy league is difficult, and the times can be blisteringly fast. i'll admit that i know little about the swim programs at hopkins or chicago. </p>
<p>the only issue for you now is where you're best suited to have swimming help you in admissions. given your interest in swimming throughout college, i'll reiterate that the NESCAC schools seem like the best match for your times, but also your interest in a top rate education. Williams, Amherst, and Middlebury have the best swim programs in the country. Bowdoin and Wesleyan have good programs (and great pools) but, as I said above, may be good shots for recruitment.</p>
<p>I thought you might find the following info useful. These are the NCAA D3 Cuts for this year.</p>
<p>The first time is the A Cut time which would mean automatic entry to NCAA D3 Championships. The second time is a B Cut or a consideration time. The third time is the slowest time from last year that was accepted at tournament.</p>
<p>^^ these are good to go by if you're looking for massive recruitment help but u have to remember all these times r being done shaved and tapered by mainly upper-classmen at the end of the year... so these are top times. if u can make a B cut in anything then you can swim D3 as a moderately-highly regarded recruit. </p>
<p>anyways, swimmingjew, your times aren't bad but they're not that great so depending on your height, improvement, etc. some of the schools on your list could like you to swim for them if they see you as having potential to drastically improve, which is very very possible. </p>
<p>and in terms of academics, most ivies will want you to have pretty good scores and what not, so i'd estimate like a 31-32 for the ACT or whatever equivalent that would be on SAT (i'd guess... 2050'ish?) coupled with a decent GPA. every coach i ever talked to though have guaranteed that they have never had an application which they endorsed be rejected. </p>
<p>and other than the ivies, the other schools won't care about academics quite that much if they are actively recruiting you... though I don't know much about the small LAC's and their policies...</p>
<p>If you value academics and want competitive swimming, check out the NESCAC (New England Small College Athletic Conference) website.
NESCAC is a great conference and includes Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin and Tufts. among others.
Email the coaches asap after you study the times. Where's the fit?</p>
<p>Also checkout D3swimming.com</p>
<p>The Conference champs were last weekend. They are one of the fastest, if not the fastest conference in all of D-III. Many of the boys dropped 10+ seconds at conference. My own son, a freshman, is much faster than he was in high school and will make an impact at NCAAs. He is thrilled to be at D-III-more balanced life-- than D-1 and his competitive experience just as fast as D-1 mid major teams and low ivies, ie... UPENN, and Dartmouth.</p>
<p>When you contact coaches, emphasize your potential to drop more time in college, if in fact that is something you think you can do.</p>
<p>Re. Wash U. beware, they are fast D-3 team, but admissions is sketchy;They are paranoid about being a "Tufts Syndrome" school. (look that up on CC) ie. unless you show amazing proof that they are your first choice, they will wait-list you.</p>
<p>Re. D-1, Georgetown has a relatively new coach who probably does not have much pull with male admissions. His team was not very strong as of 2008.</p>
<p>Dartmouth- forget about it. Bottom of Ivy League,very depressing swim culture, school eliminated swimming a few years ago and alum managed to bring it back to life, barely.
In 2007 they had 15 ED candidates and only 3 got in. Unheard of in Ivy or NESCAC recruiting. Dart. Coaches have very little impact on admissions unless you are a Jr. Nationals swimmer. But they will string you along. Beware.</p>
<p>Ok my SAT scores came back and heres the breakdown:
690 Math
710 CR
740 Writing
combined 2140</p>
<p>Also got a 31 on my ACT</p>
<p>I'm taking it again in June, with some subject tests in May. Along with this, Im in the top quarter of my class. How much does that really hurt my chances at going to one of these good schools? I go to a very competitive public texas high school, so it's very hard to be top 10% here. Also i shaved some time in my best events at 4-A state recently, with a 53.09 in my Fly and a 22.58 in my 50 free. between last year and this year i've shaved a little over 2 seconds in my fly, and nearly a second and a half in my freestyle. Is this good enough?</p>
<p>Your test scores and swim stats seem good. Do your homework. Check out the swim times on the college websites and don't ask us about your stats, email the coaches!</p>
<p>First outreach should be somewhat general- hello and here are my stats--go fishing and see if they bite. If they do, follow up with specific questions, ie. how many freshman will you support, what is your record with admissions, how many of your freshman were accepted ED?</p>
<p>Coaches will want to know your swim times and your SATs, and gpa. If you have a school profile and unofficial transcript send that so they can see your course selection and assess the academic rigor of your school.</p>
<p>Don't worry about class rank. </p>
<p>You will also need to have good Sat subject test scores.</p>
<p>I assume you are a 2010 applicant, so may want to wait until post NCAA-DIII to follow up with coaches. The good teams are getting ready for NCAAs which start 3/18--so coaches are distracted.</p>
<p>Also check out the NCAA website for D-III NCAA men's swimming champs psyche sheet. That will give you an idea of top programs this year.</p>
<p>The Nescac schools like Amherst, Bowdoin ,Middlebury and Williams, no. But bigger Schools Like Wash U, Johns Hopkins, etc. probably. I know for sure NYU and U Chicago do, but the other ones I’m unsure about.</p>