Dad wants a practical major

Parents Forum
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Multipliers of the poverty line have been mentioned here as an indicator of happiness. I think it got deleted because the entire post was part of a heated back-and-forth but I wanted to address the main point of it.

We can use the federal Obamacare numbers for a reasonable measure of the poverty line: https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-FPL/

So for individuals, 1x is basically 3/4 time federal minimum wage, 2x is $12/hour, and 4x is a solid $45k job. That all seems relatively attainable, and in a low cost-of-living area you could live quite alright on $45k alone. Not quite so in places like SF Bay Area / LA / NY / other major high COL hubs, where $60k is barely enough to get by. Now if you want to have a family of any sort, that starts to complicate things. A family of four (i.e. two children) will require something like $100k between all working family members to get to that 4x point, and again that’s not counting higher COL areas. Add in other expenses - unexpected illness, debt troubles, legal expenses, student loans that need repaying, one spouse not being employed - and you start to reach a point where you need to be solidly middle class to really be able to afford that kind of life in the long term. The practical cutoff for that “4x poverty line” can start to be in the six figures, which is pretty consistent with what most people would call a financially stable point, after which more money starts to just be running up the score. And it is in fact very likely that people wouldn’t manage to reach that level of career earnings for a long time if they choose a less lucrative career path. So for most career paths, the money question is actually pretty relevant to overall happiness.

82

That means what, to OP?

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It means money actually matters and a “do what you love” approach isn’t all going to magically work itself out.

84

But that’s part of a side argument. Are you trying to convince OP she needs a high income? Can we try to stay on track?

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At Wellesley, the International Relations major has 3 tracks: economics, history, or political science. My D started out in International Relations in the history track but ended up changing to “just” History because of the International Relations requirements in economics, which are very math based, and that’s an area she struggles with.

Economics majors at Wellesley do VERY WELL in post-graduation employment.

And my history major D graduated, works in finance and makes a very good salary.

86

You can take engineering classes at Olin, which has a partnership with Wellesley, but I don’t think you can get your degree in engineering. What I don’t think your dad realizes is that many of the jobs your generation will be doing 20 years from now haven’t been invented yet, so you’re better off getting a degree in something you truly enjoy and then seeing where that takes you.

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^ And picking up skills. It’s doubtful that certain skills (communication, quantitative, logic, personal/empathy, street-smarts/savvy, making connections between things) will ever become obsolete.

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Too many posters are missing the OP’s dilemma. She does NOT want to do engineering, math or other STEM fields. She wants to do Econ and IR. Trying to tell her she needs to do STEM is useless as she is unlikely to succeed at it- given what she states about her interest and aptitude/ability. So- take those off the table. There is life outside of STEM fields!

Read a nice long article about the value of math for CS awhile ago. Thinking outside the box as opposed to just doing programming et al.

It still seems to me the answer to her problem is to start her freshman year at the school she is already admitted to and then approach her father with the knowledge she gains about her proposed fields. This seems to be a case where the father knows little except that one field has jobs. The daughter needs encouragement to start her first year of college, deferring any arguments for her plans until later. She can easily accomplish meeting requirements that will help her in any major this coming year. Then, armed with her college experience, she can show her father how her plans are viable.

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econ is a fine major, it’s the IR part that fails. i used to hang with an ambassador’s daughter who was majoring in IR. she was already hooked up for grad school at georgetown and then on to a state dept job. if that’s you then IR is a great major. otherwise otherwise

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Yes, wis75! And no one should worry about the IR, she’s not marrying it, she’s thinking about how to get where she wants to be. She’s off to an excellent college that will advise her. She will grow, define her goals.

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Wellesley has only produced two Sec of State and only has the Albright Center. Could we all stop acting as though IR is some kind of field where Wellesley can’t provide an excellent base? Sheesh.

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You people have so little imagination! Neither economics nor international relations at the undergraduate level prepares anyone for specific actual productive work. Both provide lots of opportunity to learn analysis, critical thinking, research, communication. People with each major get hired for the same entry-level jobs, which may be in business, government, or the nonprofit sector.

The difference is not so much that economics is more valuable than international relations. (OK, maybe I think it’s a little more valuable as an analytic discipline, but that’s beside the point.) The difference is that undergraduate economics departments are stuffed with kids who are intent on careers in business and finance, and are using their economics major along with other things like internships to get them where they want to go. So of course they will get a relatively higher share of those jobs, because they start out with a relatively higher share of the people who want those jobs. An international relations major who is focused on business employment in the same way is likely to have an equivalent level of success. Someone who is majoring in international relations because she does not want to go into business is not likely to land a plum business job on graduation, largely because she won’t have looked for one in a serious way.

The ridiculous mistake many posters here make is assuming that one can shove square pegs into round holes just because one thinks round holes are a better idea. People don’t work that way. Everyone likes the idea of the OP majoring in economics, but the OP says she hates math. She should challenge herself a little to get over that, but if that turns out to be a fundamental part of her personality she is not going to enjoy economics much, or have a lot of success with it. And going into engineering would not remotely be a viable option for her.

What she should do, and what every other college kid should do, is this: Study something that makes her excited and that challenges her, that makes her grow, and at which she can be successful. If it’s underwater basketweaving, that’s fine. A vibrant, engaged, successful underwater basketweaver will be both happier and a better candidate for many jobs than a reluctant, barely-getting-by economics major. But all those kids should remember that they have to plan for post-college employment, and they should do what they have to do throughout college to position themselves for that. It may include taking courses outside their major to acquire and demonstrate skills employers value; it certainly includes establishing a track record of productive work and a network that will ease the way into employment. By and large, the people who do that come out fine, and they are happy and successful.

That’s what I want for my kids, that they be happy and successful. You, too, probably.

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A lot of Dad’s want practical majors…my roommate wanted to be pre-med and her Dad wanted a practical major…she did Biomedical Engineering and ended up not applying to med school and beign a biomedical engineer. My now DH wanted to go to law school and major in history/politics…but his Dad wanted a practical major…he did Accounting and now is a CPA. He got into a law school but opted not to attend.

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@wis75, the OP’s dad isn’t asking her to change colleges. And Wellesley isn’t split up like a state university – Wellesley is pretty much one school with different majors.

OP, can you contact the career office St Wellesley and ask for a list of where their students with the IR/Econcincentration have ended up recently (not just their two famous SOS graduates)? You might be able to use that info to convince your dad. Also, is he threatening to not pay, or just “rumbling” (as dads do) about this?

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OP worries her dad might “pull her out” if she doesn’t have a major he can see value in. She can work on finding how to show him the value. Sometimes, talking about “passions” isn’t it. Sometimes, a good spin helps. If he’s agreeing to send her this fall, she seems to have some time to build her points.

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This is all silly. My D entered Wellesley thinking she’d be a chemistry/neuroscience major and wound up majoring in economics because she found it more interesting. Big whoops.

The OP doesn’t have to decide or declare anything at this point in time. So for some of you to declare what she should or should not do - at Wellesley, no less! Not Party-On State U - is ridiculous.

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@Much2learn

I disagree with some of your statement that “Cool majors that result in unemployment or taking a job not related to the major are not good either.”

If I were at a good school and majored in anthropology because I really liked it, but decided to go into a career in management consulting or investment banking - I think that is perfectly okay. A lot of people in fields like management consulting/investment banking did NOT study business (in fact, undergrad business degrees are often frowned upon by many people in the field unless it is coming from a top business school). Your major and your career track do not necessarily need to be the same.

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@yikesyikesyikes “If I were at a good school and majored in anthropology because I really liked it, but decided to go into a career in management consulting or investment banking - I think that is perfectly okay.”

I understand what you are saying. However, many more students are majoring in anthropology who think they are going to work on a dig site when they graduate, but then can’t find a job that requires an anthropology degree or any degree.

I think it is important for a student to have a realistic post graduation plan. If you are a top student at Columbia or Williams or Amherst, then your approach may make sense. If you are a 3.0 student at average directional U, then your plan is not very likely. Many average students just do not think about what happens next, this until they graduate. That is the problem.

I think whatever major a student chooses is fine, as long as they have investigated and realistically assessed and thought through how it will play out after graduation. The problem is that many students haven’t thought about it at all. They think a miracle will happen.

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@Much2learn

Definitely - I agree that it is important to have realistic post-graduation plans, just that it does not have to necessarily relate with the major. You are also right in saying that the investment banking/management consulting route is pretty closed for students not from top schools or not in top positions within their schools.

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But not a dig site, that’s more the archaeology side. Plenty of anthro kids think they’ll work in various programs, for the govt, non-profits, the list goes on- and surprise, includes working for businesses. Come on, folks, not all jobs state they require a major in X. Look around.

This OP is looking forward.