DANCE college!

<p>janemacjanemac, Ballet Talk for Dancers (<a href="http://dancers.invisionzone.com/index.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dancers.invisionzone.com/index.php&lt;/a&gt;) is an excellent source of information for all things related to ballet and ballet education. In fact, there is a particular forum dedicated to the discussion of higher education and dance training. Within that forum are threads dedicated to each college or university program with a dance major or minor. The posts are by people who have questions and those who have first-hand experience with the programs. In addition, there are discussions about colleges/universities that have ballet training in the vicinity of the schools, but not necessarily on campus.</p>

<p>In general, it is very important to know what it is you expect to get out of a dance major or minor. My older daughter is a very serious pre-professional ballet student with very high academic abilities who aspires to a professional dance career. So, this subject has been near and dear to my heart for many, many years. It would take way too long a post for me to go into all the various issues that you need to consider if you intend to strive for a professional career as a ballet dancer. But, reviewing the threads on Ballet Talk for Dancer will certainly give you some food for thought as well as a place to start in terms of which schools to look into.</p>

<p>In short, the conventional wisdom lists Butler, Indiana University, Texas Christian University, Utah, and Southern Methodist University as the 'Fab Five' for ballet. However, University of Arizona and Florida State seem to have increased the reputation of their ballet departments in the last few years. In actuality, what makes a school get listed as a 'top' school can be debated. For my purposes, it would be whether the majority of their graduates received professional contracts at or before graduation. If that is the overriding criteria, my personal opinion is that IU is the only one that meets that criteria.</p>

<p>But, IU is a very small, exclusive program. I think (not positive) that there are only around 40 students total (freshmen through senior) admitted to the program. Butler has a much larger student body, closer to 100. It, too, is difficult to get into, but not impossible. IU's admitted students often already have offers of company trainee or apprenticeships that they are weighing along with their IU admission. I don't have as much information on the other schools.</p>

<p>I think, too, you will find that the vast majority of dance programs at colleges/university are more modern-based. The concept of modern actually dove-tails better with the philosophy of what a liberal arts college/university was originally set up to do. Therefore, one school of thought is that to train for a professional ballet career one might be better off spending those finishing years at a 'vocational training ground', i.e., an intensive post-grad ballet school---for example, Washington School of Ballet, Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet, North Carolina Dance Theatre, etc. Certainly, those training fees are significantly less than college tuition. </p>

<p>In the end, the college dance graduate will still be competing for the same entry level jobs (extremely poor paying, mind you) that the 18, 19, 20 years old post-grads are auditioning for. For a professional ballet dancer, time is of the essence. There are only so many years a body can dance at that level. Thank heavens, one's mind can last so much longer! </p>

<p>Currently, there are very few job opportunities opening up in the ballet companies. Most of the entry level 'jobs' pay next to nothing, if anything. Parental finanacial support is absolutely a must! </p>

<p>The ability to double major at many of the top ballet college programs is questionable. Think about the number of hours in a day is required for a student to get the minimum ballet technique class (1 1/2hr), pointe (1 hr), pas de deux, variations, adjunct dance classes (modern, jazz, tap, character), other dance department requirements (dance history, costuming, etc), rehearsal hours, performance hours, AND get in the required university core courses. Science classes typically have an additional 2-3 hour lab section added to them. At Butler, double majoring is not really very feasible. At IU, they say most students do, but I'm not sure how that really works.</p>

<p>IU is a conservatory-style program. Butler is not. </p>

<p>Another concern for my daughter is when she looked at the actual courses and dance hours at various college programs were probably insufficient to maintain a company-ready level of training. So, there really are a lot of issues to be considered if you are really serious about having a shot at a professional ballet career.</p>

<p>treemaven, that was a fabulous post; perhaps you can also put it into "arts majors" with the word "dance" in the title, so it's archived to keep helping others. </p>

<p>janemac, how're we doing now, understanding your goals? I just re-read your Post #17. Here's what I'm picturing: you have academics to qualify into a good or great college or uni, and you love to dance ballet, but your parents will permit a dance major only if you can justify it to them practically by referring to ancillary skills such as in dance education (undergrad ed and psych courses), dance theater production (theater production course), starting your own dance school (business course such as "Intro to Small Business Management"), dance PT injury work (anatomy, physiology courses).</p>

<p>Kids in the arts, even in arts-based careers other than pure stage performing, seem to have to walk their parents through the woods to convince them they won't die by choosing an arts major. Exceptions might include parents who have had arts careers themselves, unless they are the biggest opponents due to dashed arts careers. </p>

<p>The most supportive parents I've met recently are the parents of an LAC dance major who were, themselves both professional actors until around age 45 when they switched over, without rancor that I know of, into business and computer jobs. Perhaps it was to pay S's tuition bills. Between age 20-45, they didn't starve, they worked as professional actors in Manhattan and lived in a very modest NJ suburb. They, however, were completely relaxed in their skins to support S's dance major, perhaps because they knew of the pleasure the first half of their adult lives had brought them. They trusted themselves and had the B.A. backgrounds to switch careers when they needed to. Just a lovely and unusual set of unstressed arts major parents. Rare.</p>

<p>i just want to do what i love .</p>

<p>
[quote]
Therefore, one school of thought is that to train for a professional ballet career one might be better off spending those finishing years at a 'vocational training ground', i.e., an intensive post-grad ballet school---for example, Washington School of Ballet, Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet, North Carolina Dance Theatre, etc. Certainly, those training fees are significantly less than college tuition.

[/quote]
Excellent point. College is not a cost-effective route to the ballet world.</p>

<p>
[quote]
In the end, the college dance graduate will still be competing for the same entry level jobs (extremely poor paying, mind you) that the 18, 19, 20 years old post-grads are auditioning for. For a professional ballet dancer, time is of the essence. There are only so many years a body can dance at that level. Thank heavens, one's mind can last so much longer!

[/quote]
Which is why many dancers who are academically inclined struggle with how to do both. Often it involves dancing a few years and then heading back to college.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Currently, there are very few job opportunities opening up in the ballet companies. Most of the entry level 'jobs' pay next to nothing, if anything. Parental finanancial support is absolutely a must!

[/quote]
Los Angeles Ballet is finishing its first season. It has some pretty damned good dancers in it and, given what I can extrapolate about the economics, it's got to be tough all over if LAB is getting this class of dancer.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Another concern for my daughter is when she looked at the actual courses and dance hours at various college programs were probably insufficient to maintain a company-ready level of training. So, there really are a lot of issues to be considered if you are really serious about having a shot at a professional ballet career.

[/quote]
In my business, I sometimes tell clients that holding off on deciding is in and of itself a decision. My D was told in 9th grade that she had a shot--and only a shot--at dancing pro but that it would require total commitment to ballet. As much as her love of ballet runs through the tiniest of her capillaries, she would not give up the academics. By senior year of high school, it was clear that she was a great student who was a good dancer rather than a great dancer who was a good student and she went off to college mostly serene and definitely accepting of the fact that the two classes of technique per week would not let her maintain the dancing shape she was in when taking 18-20 hours per week while in high school. No pas de deux and the strength for pointe would fade. She's planning on taking some tough classes this summer and working her way back into pointe shape but we'll have to see how it goes.</p>

<p>looking back at this old post, it is very informative. though i regret some of the things i said!</p>

<p>celebrate the arc of self-discovery</p>

<p>hhahaaahahahahahahaaha. </p>

<p>thanks, paying3tuitions.</p>

<p>i'm actually quite fond of umass amherst these days. =]</p>

<p>I have a friend I danced with go to college at Jacksonville U as a dance major. She has been in plenty of performances in her 3 years there, and just last year was given an offer by a Ballet company in Georgia - 2 years before she graduated. She also hopes to open up her own studio some day. It's not on par with Harvard's academics but the dance programs seem to be amazing</p>

<p>I'd say look at Goucher and maybe Hampshire.</p>

<p>To add a twist to this thread, can anyone make suggestions for a small California college that has a low key dance program? D wants to major in some sort of science, and would like to take creative/modern dance classes. She does not have tons of experience, like a lot of the students you would expect to see in a dance program.</p>

<p>I think I've seen Scripps mentioned, but I'm not sure.</p>

<p>chapman: <a href="http://www.chapman.edu/dance/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.chapman.edu/dance/&lt;/a>
Humboldt state university dept. theatre, film and dance: <a href="http://www.humboldt.edu/%7Etheatre/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.humboldt.edu/~theatre/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Thank you, we'll look into them.</p>

<p>bethie is right...students at the Claremont colleges (<a href="http://www.claremont.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.claremont.edu&lt;/a&gt;) have access to dance programs at both Scripps and Pomona. The programs are strong, with some very serious dancers, but there's also plenty of room (in both classes and performances) for less experienced or less committed students. </p>

<p>I've heard excellent things about Chapman's dance department, though I don't know how accessible it is to non-degree seeking students. Ditto LMU. Occidental has some student dance groups and some dance courses through the theatre department, but I don't believe it offers a major (could be wrong). I assume the classes are accessible, but offerings are comparatively slim. Might still be more than plenty.</p>

<p>Not positive what you mean by "small." The Claremont colleges have approx. 5,000 undergrads between the 5 of them (largest is Pomona with 1,500 and smallest is Mudd with 750ish); Oxy is 1500ish; LMU is just under 6,000 (undergrads); Chapman is just under 4,000 (undergrads). So, all small in the grand-scheme of things, but LMU and Chapman are still fairly sizable.</p>

<p>In case anyone else reads this thread for dance schools, you might want to look at Oklahoma City University. They have a ndew dance building that they are very proud of. They also offer a degree in dance management.</p>

<p>for what it's worth, here is a link to Case's dance program....</p>

<p><a href="http://dance.case.edu/Default.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dance.case.edu/Default.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I'm just finishing up my D1 search who is into vocal music. D2 is only a 9th grader but big on dance (attends a magnet school for the arts in dance). In doing the search for #1 I cast the net a little farther and recently came up with these small LA colleges for #2 who wants to be able to do dance, but probably not major in it...at this point:</p>

<p>Alma College, Alma MI
Randolph College, Lynchburg, VA
Albion College, Albion MI
Baldwin-Wallace College, Berea Oh (suburb of Clev)
Denison Univ, Granville, OH (near Columbus)
Hope College, Holland, MI
Ithaca College, Ithaca, NY
Shenandoah Univ, Winchester, VA
Mercyhurst College, Erie, PA
OH Wesleyan, Deleware, OH ( near Columbus)
Allegheny College, Meadville, PA</p>

<p>I've heard Cal State Long Beach has a strong program.</p>

<p>Thanks for getting us pointed in the right direction. Looks like she could participate at several of those that y'all have suggested.</p>

<p>Chapman U is in the process this year of reorganizing its entire Performing Arts program, incoluding dance, so be sure to get the very LATEST info, not older anecdotes there.</p>

<p>As she looks into many programs, also glance sideways to see what else is happening creatively on every campus she considers. For example, at Chapman U (where my S is a freshman), there is also a very dynamic department: Dodge College of Film and Media Arts. There are some crossovers with the actors and dancers into the films that the students produce.</p>

<p>I'm just piling this on as another dimension to explore, if briefly, on each campus. Are there other creative programs on campus, people your D might like to meet with similar desires to pursue creative majors AND academics?</p>

<p>I'm imaganing, for example, if a place has a strong music department she might ask if there are greater options for live music at dance recitals. I'm dreaming here, but you get the idea; some campuses have a creative spark to them. That can help your D find a good fit...as compared to a campus that expresses a ho-hum attitude about arts as a sideline, "Dance. Art. Oh, that's nice." In other environments, the reaction could be, "Dance. Wow. I know someone working on a project who needs a dancer.." </p>

<p>Happy for you at this stage of research, although I know it's also a ton of work.</p>