Dangers of Youtube

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>So I'm cruising a school that look amazing on the website - well-planned program, qualified teachers with impressive credentials, cute costumes, etc. Then I hop over to youtube to see what I can see....and I find myself in distress because I really wanted it to be a great school. I know the videos are by somebody's mom with her cell phone, so the sound quality isn't great, but why is the piano so loud and in need of tuning? Why are the singers planted there like trees? Why did the singer pick a showcase song that has all of a 5 note range and not at all suited to her type? Why does the college senior year singer sound no better than some senior high school kids I know locally? Why is the ensemble standing around looking awkward, not knowing what to do with their hands? </p>

<p>Do we eliminate schools based on youtube video performances? </p>

<p>To be fair moms with telephone videos from other schools have managed to impress me with their postings. So we can't blame it all on the video phones. And certainly not on the moms! :)</p>

<p>Live performances would be great, however, kido has her own rehearsals and performances to deal with. </p>

<p>Is it fair to judge a school by the youtube videos?</p>

<p>Advise (verb). Please.</p>

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<p>Actually, I was never smart enough to check out YouTube for the “feel” of a program…I think you made some pretty profound observations. Soundwise, yes, that could be forgiven (or at least expectations can be dialed down in that area). And no tape EVER captures the true electricity of a live performance. BUT…the camera can’t lie on the other things you noticed: dead arms, lack of reaction from the chorus, the poor choice of song, etc. </p>

<p>When my son was auditioning, we made sure he saw a production by each school’s MT department, even if we had to come back another day to do so. Campus tours, fancy housing, etc. (even “buzz” and reputation) are all well and good, but he was most interested to see what their level of production and what level their performers had achieved.</p>

<p>IMHO, I don’t think anyone should choose a school without doing this kind of homework.</p>

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<p>We did not check out YouTube when looking into college programs. </p>

<p>I can also say that my D’s BFA program doesn’t have any YouTube clips of their productions. In fact, videos typically are not allowed in at their productions. Sadly, we don’t even own videos of the musicals D was in at college for the most part. </p>

<p>I notice some colleges put a slew of videos up on YouTube and some like my D’s school do not. So, it is a little hard to compare apples to apples relying on YouTube.</p>

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<p>Soozie
I don’t get the feeling that this was a professional video posted by the program. This could be sort of “contraband” and there are lots of those out there…</p>

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<p>I saw some nice videos clips on Youtube of the special performances that NYU/Tisch MT students put on at the beginning of each year for (I think) the entire student body.</p>

<p>They were impressive.</p>

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<p>Are you applying to a conservatory/specific music program? If not, I wouldn’t be concerned. But if you are, phone videos are crummy. My phone makes things sound out of tune. Was it a real performance, or just a dress rehearsal or something of the sort?</p>

<p>Rather than watching youtube videos, see if you can visit the college and watch a performance. That will be so much better than watching cell phone videos on your computer. If you can’t visit, maybe the college will send you a DVD of one of their performances.</p>

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<p>NJTheatreMom, I know what video you mean and the reason that video exists is that this was not a Tisch production. It was at Madison Square Garden. The cast are NYU students (you don’t have to necessarily be in Tisch to be in the cast, though most are). They are not all MT students whatsoever but many are from various acting studios. Many are in ETW studio in fact. ALL those in the cast WROTE the show each year. I know this as my D has been in it (the videos you likely watched) and was the musical director of it in 2008 (also a writer/performer) and 2009, and then this month, she was a writer/performer and musical director of a different version that was put on at NYU Abu Dhabi. The latter cast were all Tisch alums.</p>

<p>The videos you speak about (NYU Reality Show) are not a professionally made video (nor posted by NYU) and seem to be from someone in the audience’s own camera. While it may reveal talent at Tisch, it is not a MT production by Tisch or by the BFA in MT program. None of the Tisch or MT productions are on YouTube.</p>

<p>PS, just want to mention, having seen the show live at Madison Square Garden in 2008, what really impressed me is that each person in the cast wrote sketches, monologues, and songs and so had to have that talent as well as to sing, act, and dance. The show is very clever and creative as it addresses many serious issues of college life, but in such an entertaining way. So, that was what is striking to me but what you would not know by simply watching a YouTube video. It is a paid job for them to create this show all summer.</p>

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<p>I was looking at less competitive schools, trying to find a few to add to the mix that have certain desired characteristics. The videos seemed to be performances, not dress rehearsals, from the look of the crowds.</p>

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<p>classicalbk, I think you can use it as one component of the many that you will weigh in this process. I remember a couple of years ago seeing some youtube videos of performances at a university that is often discussed here on CC and cringing as I watched them. I’m not sure how representative they were of the school as a whole but the performances certainly weren’t something that I would have posted if I were a representative of the school. </p>

<p>As an aside, I often wonder about things I see on youtube, though. Earlier today a family friend who is an actor and who was in Rent for a long time sent me a link to a youtube video of a performance of a song from Rent that was done at the Florida Thespians event. It was painful to watch, truly painful, not only because it was so awful but also because the young woman in the video clearly thinks that she has some talent and no one has had the heart or courage to tell her otherwise.</p>

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<p>While not exactly the original topic of the thread, I’ll just make a comment about YouTube. This whole YouTube phenomena has grown in just the last few years. For example, back when my kids were in high school, my theater kid had NOTHING posted on YouTube, even though I think there are some great performances from that time period, including from her summer theater program (I can say this as a biased mom of course). Never posted a thing of this sort online though. </p>

<p>Then, came college BFA program productions and also professional shows. The majority of these did not allow any videotaping of the productions. I think the only thing my kid had on YouTube during the college years were GROUP videos of her college a capella group (some posted by us but many were posted by others). That was it. </p>

<p>It was only close to or AFTER college graduation, that she considered putting anything on YouTube. Even so, she would never allow us to put up any of her shows from prior to her BFA training. She really only wanted professional level work on YouTube. </p>

<p>She’s been out of college now for 17 months and now she does have some things on YouTube (though nothing from full scale musical productions as videos are not allowed to be taken). She is a singer/songwriter as well and so has a couple of original stuff online from concerts and such or else college and professional showcases type events. Sometimes others put up videos of her (not us) such as I found one online the last couple of days from a concert she sang in NYC a few nights prior that the venue posted. She’s also in an original theater “cabaret” group and they have a few things online that the group posted. She recently made a music video, her first ever, with this group, of a song she wrote (music/lyrics) and is the lead performer in. It’s been up for 13 days and has over 12,000 views already and in the past couple of days has been featured on some significant internet sites. </p>

<p>But at this point in her life, having samples online can be a positive thing for a career, whereas she did not have youth or educational production videos online. Remember, when you put your performance talents online, it is there forever, and you want to make sure it represents you well. Also, when you are in the field, people will google your name. Without getting into detail, for example, my D is involved in some important networking at the moment and I am sure these professional people are gonna google her name to see what they can find out. And even the music video that recently was put on YouTube, now that it was featured on some major websites in the last day or two, I’m seeing people comment on OTHER videos my kid is in and saying they found the video having seen the music video featured on these major sites. </p>

<p>So, the point is…one, is you may wish to wait until you are on the professional level before putting much of your talent on YouTube, and two, once you are professional, it may be a good thing to have samples online, but know that people will google around and find the rest or when you are out there networking, they’ll look you up. Make sure you have good samples online and not the stuff you did prior to significant training. For a while, I used to think, gosh, my kid has nothing on YouTube and also we were not allowed to video any of her college musicals or any professional ones and she’d never want us to put up show samples from prior to that time (even if they seem good for her age at the time), but in a way, I’m glad she waited to post anything. She still doesn’t have much to put on YouTube because most professional productions do not allow videotaping. She did a national tour that let us video it for personal use but we would not dare put that online. Otherwise, what she mostly can put up are original songs or concert type things. </p>

<p>I know this was not the original question but it relates. YouTube can be fun but as someone who is trying to become a professional performing artist, be careful what you have on YouTube that represents you as it is there for a long time. Before becoming professional, you can share samples with friends of your shows but if you put them on YouTube, that will represent you to the public for a long time, even after your skill level improves.</p>

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<p>PS…I can think of another example…last spring, a musical that my daughter wrote was workshopped and was being cast by one of the major casting agencies in NYC. As it was a workshop, they were not bringing the actors in for live auditions, but rather the casting agent, after seeing the character breakdowns my D provided them, came up with about 100 different actors (some for various roles) from their roster of known actors (a great many were on Broadway…many very big names and some other professionals not known as widely) and sent them to my daughter for review to see if she could give input and help to narrow the list. Now, my D recognized a lot of the names as they were famous and she also has followed MT her whole life and sees a great deal of theater and knew who many of these people are and is aware of their talents. But there were some on the list she did not know. She was pressed for time and asked me if I could get my hands on anything on these actors. So, I googled them (many had a website) and also looked each one up on YouTube and sent her links to the samples. It was quite an experience actually. But it seemed interesting to me as she only could go by their video samples online (unless she had seen them live in NYC) and in a few cases, I think was at the mercy of the fact that the samples posted didn’t necessarily show the full range of particular actors, but that was all she had to go by in some cases to send back her recommendations to the casting agency which went back and forth and back and forth, and when some offers were not accepted, it went back and forth more (I really got an inside look on the whole casting thing!). Anyway, this was an instance, where even for these professional actors, their samples online were being viewed in terms of casting decisions!! Granted, their names were known to the casting agency due to their work in the field, but as my D was a significant part of the casting decision making (as the writer), she had to rely on online samples in some cases. So, it really brought home the idea that one should think about what they have online or on YouTube that represents them! You never know who is viewing it and for what purpose!</p>

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<p>Soozievt- A hearty amen to that!</p>

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<p>Well, I don’t recall viewing YouTube in selecting colleges at all, but when reading this thread, the topic of YouTube has been on my mind this week as I observe this music video of my daughter’s that has been posted less than two weeks and in fact, I see it has 13,500 views already and I am aware that it is climbing fast the past few days after some websites featured it. The whole thing is rather mind boggling. It is a whole area that is new-ish for performers, but again, some colleges absolutely don’t post videos of their productions (including my D’s college) and you do have to think about if you want stuff up there of yourself before you had professional training so to speak as look how many people are looking at it. Rather blows my mind.</p>

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<p>As SoozeVT mentions up thread… Generally speaking it is against copyright law to post videos of productions (sometimes you may be granted permission to make an archival copy of a show… but this would not cover posting on the internet). The exception would be material in the public domain… ie. Gilbert & Sullivan, Mozart, etc… or original material where the composer, playwright, director & choreographer (if union), etc… granted permission for the material to be posted.</p>

<p>This is why often the clips you can find on youtube are questionable quality… someone’s mom with a flip camera :wink: …</p>

<p>Of course there are many clips of shows and performances, class work, etc… to be found on the web. I agree with alwaysamom “I think you can use it as one component of the many that you will weigh in this process.” I guess I would probably value more the visits to the schools, seeing live productions, sitting in on classes, talking to faculty and students, etc… but, the youtube clips are certainly fun to watch! :slight_smile: I think they live in the go with your gut category.</p>

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<p>A classmate of my D’s – a recent grad of Syracuse – was cast in the B’way production of West Side Story as a direct result of a YouTube clip. Someone involved in casting – either the choreographer or casting director – came across a clip of this boy dancing, and called him in for an audition. So you never know!</p>

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<p>soozie, I checked out the You-Tube clip of your daughter. Too funny. She is a talented, beautiful young lady. She seems like one of those people that will have a hard time choosing how to be rich and famous, as she is clearly multi-talented. (This new clip looks like she would be a natural for SNL.) How do you keep your pride in check?</p>

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<p>arrdad, I appreciate your positive feedback and you are very kind. We’re all proud of our kids, because that comes with the parent territory. I tend not to post the happenings of my daughter post college in any detail on CC as it reveals identity. </p>

<p>In any case, she doesn’t care about being rich or famous but so far is making a life in the performing arts. She is involved in several aspects of it. Her “survival” jobs are all related to MT. Performing-wise, she does MT, as well as performs as a singer-songwriter (original songs) that are not MT. She also wrote an original musical and I don’t want to be specific as to some things it got into so far as it would identify her on a public forum. I’ll just say it has been selected for a few things and now a number of producers are interested both in NYC and in other theaters around the country. This is in flux at the moment but is exciting. The video you watched (the music video…not a show/concert video…the one you said was funny) which boggles my mind that 18,000+ have viewed in a short time, was a song she wrote for a group she is in made up of alums from her college and it is a show that is completely original material that changes on a weekly basis and is performed every Sat. night in NYC. It is comedic, yeah. The other performers are talented and it is cool as they all write the sketches and songs, as well as perform them. Some of the others are indeed sketch comedians who would love to be on SNL. My D enjoys this group a great deal but her interests are broader than the whole comedic thing that some in the group have as their main focus. If you find yourself in NYC on a weekend, check it out. </p>

<p>In any case, my D is surviving post graduation in NYC and working in her field to support herself and is involved in several various endeavors in different aspects of the field and seeing where each goes, though she honestly likes all these aspects and not only being in MT productions. She’s cutting an album of original songs too. </p>

<p>Thanks for checking that video out. She had never made a music video before and said it was fun to make. Her group happened to choose to pick one of the many songs she wrote for their show and so the video features her as the lead singer but this really is not HER video but it is a cast production. Hope all is well with your D!</p>

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<p>soozie, I am glad to hear that your D is cutting an album. Please keep us posted when it comes out. She has a very original, kinda soulful voice from some of the things I’ve seen on YT. Plus, her performing style is infectious. It sounds like her musical is getting ready to go the next level. How cool is that?</p>

<p>Thanks for asking about my D. She has her first audition at SMU in two weeks. Then TCU and Texas State in early December. Then four schools at the Chicago Unifieds (Otterbein, Emerson, UArts, and Webster). All for BFA Acting programs.</p>

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<p>Thanks, arrdad. I would not be posting her CD on CC as it is a public forum that is anonymous but since you know who she is, from time to time she updates her website and I’m sure that will be posted there when the time comes. Her musical is in the midst of trying to go the next level and she has had various producers contact her in the past ten days due to exposure in NYC recently and she also just was offered representation by a theater lit agent at a major agency and so we’ll see. </p>

<p>Love the update on your daughter. Sounds like a good plan and great list of schools. You can always email me to let me know how it goes as I am interested and supporting her all the way. Give her break a leg wishes from me. She’s a talented young lady.</p>

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<p>soozie
I was hoping to PM you but it says your mailbox is full. Looking for ideas (and reassurance) for a JR daughter…</p>