Dartmouth College or Middlebury College

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hello, everyone. As May 1st rounds the corner, my brother's son still can't seem to decide between two schools: Dartmouth and Middlebury. He was accepted to both, and ever since he heard the news, he can't seem to choose. I know a great deal about the two schools, but I simply can't boast one over the other. Both schools have picturesque New England campuses with top notch facilities, highly-regarded professors, diverse student body, phenomenal language programs (Middlebury's just may be better), etc. My list is infinitely long. I would, however, like somebody to elucidate the differences and similarities of each school's alumni connections and elements of prestige. I think the central issue at bay that's plagueing my brother's son is prestige, the whole Ivy League label. Is Middlebury College renowned in the same respect as Dartmouth College? Does Middlebury feed students to acclaimed grad schools like Dartmouth? Does Middlebury help its students land successful jobs? In all sincerity, any feedback or comments in general would be of great help.</p>

<p>Can anyone also just compare the two schools overall as well?</p>

2

<p><a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<h1>7 Dartmouth</h1>

<h1>23 Middlebury</h1>

3

<p>Both schools are wonderful, but there is no doubt that Dartmouth has a much stronger reputation. That shouldn't matter, but it does to many people. Can your nephew go back and visit both places and see which one feels best to him?</p>

4

<p>No contest. Dartmouth has a stronger peer group, a stronger alumni network and a wonderful language department.</p>

5

<p>Dartmouth also is much larger, has graduate programs, and has a huge Greek presence. I can tell you that over at Middlebury's admitted students discussion forum, there are kids who have chosen Midd over Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, and Cornell. But I'd agree that the majority of people who are admitted to both an Ivy and Midd ultimately end up at the Ivy. Sometimes the Ivy name is simply too difficult to turn down.</p>

6

<p>My D is a freshman at Dartmouth. A big positive for her was the quarter system. She has wide academic interests, and definitely wanted to study abroad with a language minor or possible major. She felt the quarter system allowed her a good length of time for study abroad without losing a whole on-campus semester. Obviously, there are downsides - the academic pace is intense, probably more intense than semesters, and she doesn't match with any friends, except one girl who is at an art school on the quarter system.</p>

<p>Good or bad - the D-plan definitely makes Dartmouth different.</p>

7

<p>There are a lot of similarities and differences between both schools. My D is a sophmore at Dartmouth and like Cangel's D will be doing a study abroad, however hers will be in Religion. The quarter system can be challenging as far as seeing your friends go off to all parts of the world as rightr now she has friends doing spanish in Puebla and Barcelona, others who are studying in London, DC , and France . when she goes to Edinburgh in the fall, some of her friends will be studying in Copenhagen, Germany, and Brazil</p>

<p>Yes, Dartmouth is a larger school having 1081 freshmen and 4110 undergrads overall as compared to 577 freshmen and 2357 students overall at Middlebury. However, Dartmouth has a more racially and economically diverse population that Middlebury .</p>

<p>Middlebury</p>

<p>Nonresident aliens 55 (9.5%) First Year 192 total undergrad (8.1%)</p>

<p>Black, non-Hispanic 18 (3.1%) First Year 63 (10.9)% total undergrad </p>

<p>American Indian or Alaska Native 2 (.03%) First Year 11 (4.6%)total undergrad </p>

<p>Asian or Pacific Islander 36 (6.2%) First Year 173 (7.3%) total undergrad </p>

<p>Hispanic 32 ( 5.5%) First Year 117 ( 4.96%) total undergrad </p>

<p>White, non-Hispanic 394 ( 68.3%) First Year 1,655 (70.2%) total undergrad </p>

<p>Race/ethnicity unknown 40 (6.9) First Year 146 (6.2%) total undergrad </p>

<p>Dartmouth</p>

<p>Nonresident aliens 59(5.5%) first year 220 (5.4%) overall </p>

<p>Black, non-Hispanic 81 (7.5%) first year 278 (6.8%) overall </p>

<p>American Indian or Alaska Native 38 (3.5%) first year 133 ( 3.2%) overall </p>

<p>Asian or Pacific Islander 136 ( 12.6%) first year 546 (13.3%) overall </p>

<p>Hispanic 66 (6.1%) first year 250 (6.1%) overall</p>

<p>White, non-Hispanic 641 (59.2) 2,349 (57.2%)</p>

<p>Race/ethnicity unknown 54 (5%) first year 334 (8.1%) overall</p>

<p>Middlebury: 36.6% of the freshman class and 41.87% overall awarded need based FA scholarships/grants</p>

<p>Dartmouth : 46.8% of the freshman class and 48.84% overall awarded need based FA scholarships/grants</p>

<p>Dartmouth’s graduation rate : 93.5% Middlebury 90%</p>

<p>Common Data sets for both schools </p>

<p><a href="http://www.middlebury.edu/administration/instres/fall02_cds.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.middlebury.edu/administration/instres/fall02_cds.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Eoir/pdfs/CDS2005_2006.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~oir/pdfs/CDS2005_2006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yes, Dartmouth has graduate programs (Thayer school of engineering, Tuck school of Business, The med school and Graduate school of Arts and science) but their main focus is and al was has been undergrad education where almost all of their classes are taught by professors (TA’s lead the science labs, and individual math groups). Dartmouth students are also very connected to their professors in the event there are funds if a student wants to take a professor to lunch and it is not unusual for professors to take their classes to lunch or invite them home for dinner.</p>

<p>Dartmouth offers sophomore summer where the sophomore class are pretty much the only students on campus. While classes are being held, it is also an opportunity for the entire class to get to know each other.</p>

<p>The D-plan affords students time off from campus to pursue internships and study abroad programs as early as summer of freshman year. Dartmouth has an extensive language and Foreign study abroad programs. </p>

<p><a href="http://oracle-www.dartmouth.edu/ocp/prod/index.cfm?FuseAction=Programs.Home%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://oracle-www.dartmouth.edu/ocp/prod/index.cfm?FuseAction=Programs.Home&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yes, Dartmouth has a strong Greek presence, but it is an inclusive presence where the campus at large are invited and welcomed to participate in almost every activity thrown by them. If you choose not to go Greek, there are still lots of activities to participate in that don’t involve Greek life.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is profiled in the new college guidebook Colleges with a Conscience, compiled by The Princeton Review and Campus Compact, a national nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting community service, civic engagement and service learning in higher education. More than 900 schools were reviewed for the book, which profiles 81 schools with the most exemplary public service programs, on campus and off. </p>

<p>Robert Franek, Princeton Review Vice President of Publishing, said, "These institutions have administrations committed to social responsibility and student bodies actively engaged in serving society. Education at these schools isn't only about private gain: it's about the public good."</p>

<p>"Dartmouth has an important history of building volunteer and outreach programs that are engaging, meaningful and effective," noted President James Wright. "The students involved in these programs exemplify how undergraduates can wed their academic work and community service in a way that enhances both."
<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Edartlife/archives/15-4/review.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dartlife/archives/15-4/review.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

8

<p>Middlebury was included in "Colleges with a Conscience" as well. Your post only reinforces the notion that the schools are quite similar. Dartmouth has the edge (in many instances, a slight edge) in nearly all comparisons, but one would expect that when comparing an Ivy League school with more resources, a larger student body, and the Ivy name to a smaller liberal arts college. If prestige is most important, than go to Dartmouth--no question. If you're looking for a place where you can grow and nurture your mind, body, and spirit, then both colleges have much to offer, and Middlebury deserves a closer look.</p>

9

<p>DadCT72: Thanks for the link to the WSJ list; is that current?</p>

10

<p>Where I live, no one has ever heard of Middlebury, and there aren't any Dartmouth alums, and this is the state capital.</p>

<p>Podunk State will help you land your first job. After that, it's pretty much up to you.</p>

11

<p>mini,
i'm sure that 1) there are some people in Olympia who have heard of (and attended!) Middlebury; and 2) there are Dartmouth alums in Olympia. Are they as well known as, say, University of Washington or Reed in that part of the country? I'm sure they're not. In Olympia, someone who went to UW probably has an advantage over someone who went to Middlebury (or Williams, Bowdoin, Amherst, etc.). But on the East Coast, Middlebury and Dartmouth degrees may get your foot in the door at some companies.</p>

12

<p>"i'm sure that 1) there are some people in Olympia who have heard of (and attended!) Middlebury; and 2) there are Dartmouth alums in Olympia."</p>

<p>I'll bet there are. I've only lived here 15 years and haven't met any, but I'll keep my eyes and ears open. A couple of months ago, I saw a car in a parking lot with a Williams sticker on it! So I ran up to the owner as he got into the car. Sadly, he had bought the car used, on the east coast, for a cross-country trip, and hadn't taken the sticker off. There IS an Amherst sticker that has been circling my office for the last several months. ;)</p>

<p>There is a Mount Holyoke grad on my block! (and another one who has been in my community orchestra.) The Yale guy who does the interviews in my town had been unemployed for about 9 months - don't know what that's about.</p>

<p>My boss went to SUNY-Albany.</p>

13

<p>Having lived on the east coast my first 43 years, moving west in '97, I sheepishly admit that I had never heard of Reed until about a year ago after I started hanging out here on CC.</p>

<p>I was, however, accepted at Middlebury "back in the day", and had certainly heard of Dartmouth. Even back then, Midd was known as a strong place for language studies. Especially if nephew is likely to stay in the east, I can't imagine that Midd's reputation would fare poorly in terms of respect. As sybbie points out, though, Dartmouth would almost surely be a more diverse school in most respects. And neither will be a poor choice!</p>

14

<p>mini--i just did a quick query of Midd's alum directory and it spit out 13 registered alums living in Olympia. Assuming a population of 43,982, that means one out of every 3383 people you meet will be a Midd alum. You'd better get cracking!!!</p>

15

<p>Do we know how many of them are dead? ;) (or "almost" - we have lots of "older folks" who are registered as living here - low taxes - but actually live most of the year in Arizona or So. Cal. or points to the south...)</p>

<p>I think I've said this before, but when I was in high school in NYC in the 'dark ages' the guidance counselor literally used to threaten us with Middlebury if we didn't keep our grades up. But I don't remember a single Stuy grad who actually went there, so I guess we took the hint....:)</p>

16

<p>16 Williams alums in town too - have you met them all ? :)</p>

17

<p>I actually know of three, though we haven't met. (so much for alumni networking...) Again, mostly snowbirds.... (there is a gathering for the annual Amherst/Williams pigskin thingy in Seattle every year, and now for the pigskin haters they've started a joint service project planting stuff and etc. Since I'm agnostic about pigskin and allergic to most things "earthy", I haven't managed to partake. I do have a wonderful Billsville acquaintance in Seattle who quit his job as an MD to become a full-time poet.)</p>

18

<p>I would disagree with your assertion that Middlebury's language programs are better than Dartmouth's. Keep in mind that Dartmouth has John Rassias, who invented the Rassias method which is one of most popular methods of teaching languages in colleges around the country. Dartmouth also offers numerous Language Study Abroads where people can learn to speak fluently by actually living in the country their language is spoken.</p>

19

<p>visited both schools quite seriously with S, and agree that Middlebury delivers a great education and strong peer group. Putting in a vote for Dartmouth, despite the fact that I believe it would be a better school with less of a Greek system social focus. The kids really struck us as remarkable, individualistic (not pack mentality at all) and high spirited. There is a great balance between lively intellect and fresh air outdoorsiness on campus and we felt that economic and cultural diversity was strong. Love the size of the college and find it intimate and undergrad cozy but not stiflingly small.<br>
There is no bad choice here, however.</p>

20

<p>Xanatos -- I was going to post about Rassias but you got there before I did. Although I love Middlebury and am saddened that my daughter will not be attending (WL, perhaps because she did not apply ED, but who knows), I am having some second thoughts about it, anyway. Many people expressed the concern that its foreign language reputation was based on the summer program. When I compared Middlebury's French and Italian departments to those of Barnard and Wellesley, Middlebury's programs didn't look so good. They have fewer professors, courses and majors than the other two colleges. I can't give you any insight into Dartmouth's language programs aside from what I know about Rassias. (I am a French teacher.)</p>