Dartmouth just slammed me!!

Parents Forum
1

<p>I wrote:
Hello
If I receive full financial aid, will it cover the indirect expenses
like books, etc? Are there any costs that are not covered within the full
financial aid? What about research grants, internships and study
abroad? Will those be funded by the university?
Thanks and regards,
Adrivit</p>

<p>They wrote:
No one typically received a "full ride" to the College. Packages
include employment and grant and almost always the family is expected to
contribute something to the mix.</p>

<p>Tell me what does 100% aid mean? Their calculator shows that my EFC is 0. I am considering applying ED there. My family won't be able to pay anything.</p>

<p>What do I do? Did I misunderstand their message??</p>

2

<p>Are you a US citizen? First off, aid is different for international. Assuming you are in the US, even if your EFC is zero many schools will expect you to take out subsidized loans, they will offer you some of the funds in work study employment, etc.
That is what they mean.<br>
You should be careful of applying anywhere ED if you need 100% aid.</p>

3

<p>You understood them perfectly well. Besides any loans, a student is expected to contribute from their term time employment (maybe $2k a year), and from summer employment (maybe $3k a year), and pick up any incidentals. </p>

<p>ED is a BIG mistake unless you are sure you will accept their offer, regardless of the financial aid. First of all, you won't be able to compare offers. Secondly, yes, they COULD release you from your obligation but, if like Columbia, only to apply to "non-competitive" schools (i.e. your local state university). </p>

<p>And there are so many schools so similar to Dartmouth, I don't understand why ED would even be an issue.</p>

4

<p>I am an international ... how does that change things??</p>

5

<p>And what schools are similar to Dartmouth??</p>

6

<p>You seem to have misunderstood their message, and they yours.</p>

<p>Typically, schools that meet 100% of need, like Dartmouth, will base their aid packages on a total cost of attendance figure that includes indirect expenses like the ones you mention, and some travel to and from college. So, yes, those things are taken into account.</p>

<p>However, even if they meet 100% of need, and even if a family is very low income, most colleges will require the student to borrow some of his college expenses (and pay it back later out of future income), and to work during college to contribute to expenses (both term-time work-study and summer employment). Dartmouth was cautioning you that, even if your EFC was $0, you would probably not get a grant equal to the full cost of attendance.</p>

<p>Research grants and internship programs are usually outside the financial aid package, but can be used as part of the student-earnings contribution. Usually colleges like Dartmouth continue financial aid for the study-abroad programs they sponsor, but not for ones they don't.</p>

<p>But you should go back and try to have a better discussion with the people at Dartmouth. Make certain they know that the calculator shows a $0 EFC, and that because you are thinking about applying ED it is extremely important for you to understand the ins and outs of their financial aid packages before applying.</p>

<p>EDIT: Should have thought about the international possibility. Make certain you cover that in your e-mail with Dartmouth, too.</p>

7

<p>Thanks!! I will get back to Dartmouth ...</p>

8

<p>Before you do, read their financial aid website carefully. You will ask much better, more focused questions, and get much better quality answers.</p>

<p>I looked, and learned that starting this year Dartmouth guarantees to meet 100% of demonstrated needs of accepted international students, and to be need-blind with respect to international admissions. (Very few colleges take that position. It will increase competition among international students a lot, I suspect.) Anyway, most of your questions are answered pretty clearly there.</p>

9

<p>Full ride never means they will pay for every thing certainly NOT the cost of your internships as those are usually INCOME you will be deemed to contribute to your education. They also may make funds available through loans or work study etc. to cover incidentals like transportation to and from school but in general EVERY ONE has to put money out. The lucky ones find schools that meet 100 percent without loans but that is very rare unless your income is very very low. I think a different set of rules apply for international students....no preferential treatment and do not qualifiy for certain types of aid. Usually home countries who have a talented student will help subsidize the costs with the understanding the student will work for the benefit of the home country after college.</p>

<p>The above post seems to indicate Dartmouth is establishing need blind admissions for international students and that will increase competition. Still, they establish what "needs" are....and set amounts for travel and incidentals.</p>

<p>Good luck to you.</p>

10

<p>Op needs to keep in mind that being an international student he would not be eligible for federal aid (pell grants/ stafford loans etc).</p>

<p>When Op asked the same question on the Dartmouth board I gave him/her pretty much the same response as mini, that there is really no such thing as a free ride andy where as the student is expected to have a vested interest in the financing of their education through student contribution and/ or work study (this is how the student will pay for books, part of the transportaion cost home, laundry and other sundry items). </p>

<p>There will also be misc. expenses (health insurance) that will not be fully covered by the school (Dartmouth will cover 1/2 of the mandatory cost of health insurance unless student is covered by his/her parents plan that provides adequate health insurance while the student is in Hanover). Just because the school states that they will meet 100% of your demonstrated need, does not mean that the student gets everything totally free.</p>

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<p>As I said ... anything thats on me(work study, loans etc) is not a problem!! I just don't want to be a burden on my family ....</p>

12

<p>I also think that the email you got from Dartmouth was very specific regarding parent contribution: "almost always the family is expected to
contribute something to the mix".</p>

<p>I am guessing that Dartmouth will expect something from your parents -- but with an EFC of $0, it won't be much. Remember that Dartmouth will be the one to determine the EFC -- you will turn in lots of financial paperwork, answer lots of questions about your parent's income and assets and yours -- and then Dartmouth will determine what your EFC is.</p>

<p>If you have working during the Gap year, they will include that income in your EFC. If you didn't work during your Gap year, they may ask you why.</p>

<p>They may ask your parents to take out loans (not alot, I am guessing, if you have a low EFC).</p>

<p>many, many parents are shocked by how high their EFC is -- and you may be surprised by the EFC that Dartmouth calculates for you. That is why you are cautioned against applying ED to Dartmouth -- if you are not happy with the FA package, you are stuck.</p>

<p>Consider this -- let's say that your EFC ends up to be $2000 (which is exceptionally low when applying to private schools). Cost of Attendance for Dartmouth is ~$45,000. Your FA package could look like this:</p>

<p>EFC $2000
Parent Loans $5000
Work-Study $3500
Summer Student Contribution $2000
Student Loans $10,000
Grants $22,500</p>

<p>This package would meet full-need for you -- and may still be more than you can pay. Keep in mind that a financial package may include loans for both you and your parents and still meet full need (I am not saying that Dartmouth does this -- but it might).</p>

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<p>But Darmouth says ... with families having income less than 75000$(thats like 25 years income for mine) no tuition will be charged .... also all loans would be replaced with scholarships and grants .... doesn't anybody has updated Dartmouth financial aid info???</p>

14

<p>hsmomstef, I have not seen a top school use parent loans to meet aid. I do know there's a financial aid officer who posts on the financial aid board that says his school does this but I'm pretty sure I figured out his school and it's a private, not top-level school in Virginia. </p>

<p>adrivit, What you really need to do is talk to a financial aid counselor at Darmouth. From what I can tell, they will meet 100% of their calculated need. They will not package loans to meet need, they will not have a work component for 1 summer (summer between junior and senior year) and they will not charge tuition to families earning under $75K <strong><em>with typical assets.</em></strong> Remember, that's tuition. </p>

<p>Call or email them and find out what their summer and school year work component is. Also tell them exactly what your family income and assets are and that you're an international. If your family owns a business, owns property or anything like that, you need to mention it. If your family lives on $3K a year, you need to ask them if they would expect anything. Oh, and ask them if you can take out a loan for the family contribution. Even if they 'determine' that your family can pay something, you can work extra or take out a loan (if there are loans available to you-- some schools have private loans) and contribute the $ yourself.</p>

15

<ol>
<li><p>
[quote]
read the (Dartmouth) financial aid website carefully. You will ask much better, more focused questions, and get much better quality answers.

[/quote]
</p></li>
<li><p>
[quote]
talk to a financial aid counselor at Darmouth.

[/quote]
</p></li>
<li><p>Until then, I honestly don't recommend you read any more advice tonight. Some of the posts seem to upset or confuse you, probably because they petain to other kinds of colleges than Dartmouth.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>As I write this, it's about 2 a.m. on the East Coast of the US. In around 7 hours, they will be in their offices. There will be answers to these questions, but you need to slow down, read the website, list your questions. Email or phone, whichever serves you best. Use your day well now to research as JHS suggested. Pick the time to phone within the normal US business hours of 9 a.m. - 5 p.m., although some places work more like 9:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. depending on the time of year. </p>

<p>Have confidence that there will be answers to every question you ask.</p>

<p>It will not hurt your chances of admission to ask these questions. After you consult with Dartmouth, can you let us know how it went or how we can help interpret their answers to you? Begin your conversation with them by identifying yourself as "a prospective international student," so they can provide the counselor with best knowledge of how financial aid works for international students in particular.</p>

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<p>Adrivit, I agree that after you read their financial aid info on the web very carefully, then have a polite, detailed conversation with the financial aid office to confirm things like travel costs, health insurance, expected student earnings, and everything else. They'll only be able to give you general answers, but should be able to clear up any confusion about their policies.</p>

<p>My son got a very generous aid award (he also applied ED) to a school with similar policies as Dartmouth. We have a very low EFC by American standards, but it's not 0, so the part about what we as parents are expected to contribute will be very different from yours. (I expect your parents' would actually be 0 from what you say.) Still, the basic outline of the award package might clear up a few things for you.</p>

<p>Contribution from student's summer earnings: $1600
Contribution from parents' income and assets: $5600
Term-time student income (work-study): $1800
Student loans: 0
College scholarship (grant aid); $44,330</p>

<p>They also factor in a travel budget using their estimates (two trips home per year in our case) and an amount they figure for books. The way that works is that they expect the parents to pay for travel and books directly, but that amount is included in what they expect parents to contribute (in our case, the $5600 figure.) If we were expected to pay nothing at all, I don't know how they would work that. Depending on the generosity of the school they may award some funds for all or part of those expenses, but I don't know. That would be something you should ask them.</p>

<p>There is the health insurance issue, as Sybbie mentioned. If Dartmouth would provide half the cost to cover that, it should be no problem for you to borrow the small amount it would take to make up the difference. Since Dartmouth is dropping the student loans (make sure to confirm this applies to international students as well when you talk to them), you would be in a very good situation to borrow whatever extra amounts you needed to make it work because you wouldn't be adding that debt on top of any other loans they'd expect you take out. I imagine you could get out with pretty modest debt even if you had to borrow a little for insurance, travel, and other odds and ends.</p>

<p>ED is binding, but there is an out if you can't afford it after seeing your aid package. That can be iffy for middle income families because the college may end up expecting them to pay more than they feel they can afford, but in the case of <em>extremely</em> limited resources such as your parents, they would not give you a hard time about getting out of ED if the finances didn't work.</p>

<p>My son applied ED and needed a great deal of aid, but if the school is open about their aid policies and it's a need-based aid formula, then you can get a pretty clear idea of how it will work out. You should be prepared to borrow a little if you have to, but with no structured-in student loan piece, it won't be much and would be well worth it for the opportunity to study at a place like Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Just have a specific, clear conversation with them, and get as informed as you can. Good luck.</p>

17

<p>And by the way, I really think you should reconsider how you reference a school as generous as Dartmouth. If you are fortunate enough to get in, you should feel gratitude for their generosity and not say things like "they slammed me!!" They were just telling you some very basic, widely known information about how financial aid works... everywhere. Schools like this are amazingly generous, and if you were in a position where you had to borrow a little to make it work... well, don't snivel about that. I understand you don't want to burden your parents, but also appreciate the generosity of the school. They don't, after all, <em>owe</em> you or my son or anyone else free money. Stop and say thank you... especially to the financial aid officers whom you write to or speak with.</p>

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<p>Thanks a lot everyone!! Thanks you so much! </p>

<p>Oh and sorry about the title ... I just thought maybe a catchy title would invite more comments, naive me .... sorry!!</p>

19

<p>First...I agree..call Dartmouth and ask them. </p>

<p>Second, I'm not sure I would recommend applying ED. You have no way to compare financial aid packages from school to school...and they DO vary. They do...even for schools meeting full need.</p>

<p>I have a question...your EFC is 0, but that is not on the Profile, which doesn't give an EFC. Where did you get this number? Dartmouth uses institutional methodology to compute financial aid, doesn't it? This means that your income and assets can be viewed any way the college chooses to do so...AND the COLLEGE determines your need as well as how they will meet it. They do this for ALL students.</p>

<p>I'm not sure I understand your concern? If it's a student contribution over the four years, you would still be getting a TERRIFIC financial aid package. As 2college notes...no loans for TUITION. But room and board costs must also be taken into consideration. I don't know Dartmouth's policies re: the "full aid" for this. But their finaid folks will.</p>

<p>Get a summer job. Get a job working on campus.</p>

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<p>My EFC is 0 according the calculator on the Dartmouth website ...</p>