<p>OK. I didn't mean to across as an arrogant snob like sure thing I'll get in or something .... its just that mathematically my chances are better in ED and not tiny better but as much a 10-12% better(statistically ...) And I have the scores, ECs, everything to be considered at an IVY(considered, not accepted ...) and making ED will only increase my chances. Some people tend to misunderstand the point here. I reiterate that loans, summer work everything is NOT a concern, it doesn't contradict Post#1. Post#1 expressed fear that all those stuff would have to be paid for by my family. Surely I didn't quite have the knowledge about things then ... But now that I do and with a family income tending towards zero(by American standards), the methodology that Dartmouth creates surely won't have any family contribution whatsoever(this SHOULD be the case ...)
And I will not be flying back home every year. That will decrease or maybe negate any possible student loans. And for my misc. expenses I can always take a small loan which can be repaid without hassles and as Dartmouth puts it the money would be institutional not outside, so I will not be needing any co-signer or something ....<br>
And Dartmouth hasn't replied back. Somebody knows the email of the financial aid officer???</p>
<p>There is a big bad monster that will threaten almost all Americans in September, and will especially be families of college age students. We Americans are very short sighted although optimistic. I refer to the debt, energy, and food crisis augmented by increasing unemployment, rising taxes, lower services, and a war (s).</p>
<p>Adrivit, let me ask you something. It actually does bother me when I hear of internationals saying that they will do everything they can just to be able to attend an US school, let alone a presitigous one like Dartmouth (Ivy League is seriously overrated for many). True, I'm not an international so it's hard for me to see this way. But the thing is, I have met and made friends with internationals from as far as Bulgaria and Pakistan who could not have attended my schools without huge FA packages. And the BIGGEST sacrifice they've had to make is... not be able to return home for a long time, in several cases, in four years they were in the US. They were not willing to take out additional loans to fly home to see their families. </p>
<p>I don't know how far D and other schools will go but if it comes down to where they will cover one and only one round trip per year in the aid package (some in form of loans). You can easily forego a trip home and save several thouands of dollars in loans by staying in the US and work on campus over the summer. Just as you mentioned.</p>
<p>My recommendation, I think, is to apply to MIT EA and wait for a RD from Dartmouth. It won't make you that much less of a commited applicant as many people apply to these kind of schools are very serious and willing to commit (look at the yield rates). Definitely have applications ready for other schools.</p>
<p>MIT doesn't allow EA to intls ...</p>
<p>There is absolutely no evidence that an international requiring aid applying in the ED round has any better chance of admission than in the RD round. Not individually statistically, because there is no evidence of what happens to particular candidates. Not generally, because there is no information about the relative strengths of the pools as a whole, or about the pool of such international candidates.</p>
<p>All that can be said for sure is that there will be answer earlier. Maybe.</p>
<p>From Dartmouth's guide to FA </p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>Page 4- Budgeting Basics</p>
<p>Your Budget:
Tuition, fees, room & board are not the only expenses associated with going to College. We recognize that. We determine a “Cost of Attendance” for Dartmouth students, which builds in not only the fixed charges, but a reasonable allowance for variable, discretionary expenses. You’ll have to carefully monitor your own spending on books, travel, entertainment, laundry (yes, eventually, you will have to do laundry.)</p>
<p>Page 5</p>
<p>As you can see, some of your expenses are those fixed costs, like tuition, room & board, which are billed directly by the College. But you also need to have money available during the term to cover your variable expenses like notebooks, haircuts, pencils, shoelaces, pizzas, toothpaste, newspapers… you get the idea. Where does that money come from, you ask? Even though those costs are budgeted into your financial aid package, we don’t hand you cash for those things. Those items are covered out of your own family’s contribution, as well as earnings you will receive if you are employed on campus. But it takes a few weeks for those paychecks to start rolling in, so don’t come to campus unprepared to buy your books and supplies and posters for your room – you will need to have some cash on hand right off the bat.</p>
<p>International Students - page 31</p>
<p>International students may have special adjustments to make. The Financial Aid Office will help in any way we can.</p>
<p>Winter Clothing Expense:
The budget of first-year students from tropical climates includes a one-time $250 expense for winter clothing, and fall scholarships have been increased by $250. This usually means that the family pays $250 less on the college bill and that family funds are thus available for this purpose.</p>
<p>Leave Term and Break Periods:
Many international financial aid recipients work for the College full-time during leave terms and often for at least part of the vacation periods between terms.</p>
<p>Travel:
International students do not have a travel allowance, although students receiving Dartmouth scholarship aid will have the cost of one round trip home over your four years covered by additional scholarship funds. (Students must complete their first year at Dartmouth to be eligible.) The trip must be a direct route from Hanover to your home, and there is a $1,600 cap on the additional aid. You should see someone in the Financial Aid Office at least two months in advance. At that time, you will also be asked to sign a statement that you intend to return to Dartmouth to complete your education.</p>
<p>SEVIS Fee:
If you are required to pay the $131 SEVIS fee, your award will be revised to include this cost and Dartmouth Scholarship will be increased by $131 for fall term. This reduces the amount you and your family will need to pay Dartmouth for fall term and represents a “reimbursement” of the $131 SEVIS fee.</p>
<p>This policy does not cover students whose parents live in the U.S. or students who receive travel funding through their government, their parents’ employers, or private sponsors. Your family is responsible for your transportation to Dartmouth as well as your return home after graduation.</p>
<p>Parents’ Contributions:
31
Unfortunately the College is not able to provide increased scholarship or loan assistance to replace all or part of the parents’ contribution because of currency restrictions that may exist in your country.</p>
<p>Foreign Student Loans:
Since international students are not eligible for subsidized federal loans, Dartmouth provides these loans from College funds. Nine months after termination of enrollment in either undergraduate or graduate study, all students will go into repayment status and will be required to make monthly payments of at least $50.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>After 4 years of bills from the school, I think I am in a postion to say what is not covered in the 100% demonstrated need category (this I know because they either showed up on the bill or I paid for them directly)</p>
<p>books
toiletries and other sundry items that you may need to purchase from the CVS or the COOP
DASH - (Dartmouth Cash) to do laundry, you will need to purchase laundry
detergent
Going over on your meal plan (this amount is placed on your next bill and not covered by FA)
Gym- should you decide to take up skiing, snowboarding, horseback riding or some other PE, most of them have a charge associated with them
Student Fees
Student Health Fees (if you don't have adequate insurance, you will get a grant for 1/2 the cost and you will be billed for the other half)
Dinner in town with the friends
storage costs
reprographic fees
Movies, entertainment
Trips to the airport ($$ rount trip on Dartmouth coach to Logan Airport)
Frat/ Sorority fees (should you decide to go greek)
Additional funds associated with studying abroad; plan tickets, transfer chareges, spending $.
Senior dues
Senior class gift</p>
<p>
[quote]
And I have the scores, ECs, everything to be considered at an IVY(considered, not accepted ...) and making ED will only increase my chances.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Every unhooked student who applies ED believes the same thing that they will have what it takes to get in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is absolutely no evidence that an international requiring aid applying in the ED round has any better chance of admission than in the RD round.
[/quote]
Especially when almost 60% of the ED pool consist of hooked applicants (recruited athletes, legacies, developmental admits).</p>
<p>My recommendation: go into this with your eyes wide open and know that no matter what your stats are or what special thing you bring to the table, admission is a reach for you and everyone else.</p>
<p>How much do all those unpaid things generally cost per year??</p>
<p>And considering I don't make a trip home say 2 out of 4 years ... will that money be used for all those things??</p>
<p>Dartmouth states:</p>
<p>
[quote]
International students do not have a travel allowance, although students receiving Dartmouth scholarship aid will have the cost of one round trip home over your four years covered by additional scholarship funds.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So any additional trips home are on you (from your earnings/savings).</p>
<p>Post #45: Sixth historic agreement with mini. </p>
<p>This could become a trend.</p>
<p>To the OP: Work-study tends to bring in $200-400/month, depending on available hours to work. I assure you that "for expenses," every dime of that is needed, and covers zero travel. Books, personal stuff, and all the various sundries that sybbie took the trouble to enumerate generously here -- it easily comes to $2000+ per academic year. That's low-balling it, actually. Books can come to about $1000, and about $120/month for all the other items is really not enough. </p>
<p>Summer housing at least for US students is generally not part of even the biggest FA package. It is priced separately & is the student's responsibility. FA packages are a 9-month deal at a time. Further, any related off-season costs tend to be more, because of time periods when dining halls, etc. are closed, & students must eat out, cook in, whatever they can manage. The point being, when considered "savings" from lack of travel, consider cost of summer residence somewhere + higher cost of meals. If attending school through the summer, you will not work signficantly more hours (& those won't be work-study; they'll be a low-paid internship or independently acquired short-term employment). If not attending school during summer, you still will have the challenge of meeting your daily survival costs. In my opinion, your plan is not realistic without including the probability of at least an occasional loan or two.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that there's a cap on Work-Study hours for every student. You cannot extend your hours beyond that maximum. You could try for a different, additional job (off-campus, for example), but you could not add more hours to the W/S maximum.</p>
<p>I agree with Mini. The advantage for admission for ED applicants is not all that significant. And applying ED will not guarantee an admission any more than applying RD will. Dartmouth, like many other U.S. competitive schools, denies admission to the vast vast majority of students who apply in both the ED and RD rounds. Having said that...you can't get accepted if you don't apply. Go for it if this school is what you want. BUT have other applications ready to go if you need them.</p>
<p>Several people here have mentioned that the OP might have to take out 'incidental loans'. Does the OP have any way to get these loans? He will most likely not get them from his home country, not from Dartmouth and not from a US bank unless he finds an American co-signer.</p>
<p>And epiphany, the OP cannot work off-campus to earn more money... there are work restrictions for international students.</p>
<p>Agree with the consensus regarding the degree of advantage that ED affords - ie not much, if any - and the risk involved. Dartmouth proved exceedingly generous to us but we knew there was no way we could afford the risk of our child applying anywhere ED. (Also, we had always expected to have to trim the budget even more during the 4 years of college than we were, fortunately, able to do for years in advance in preparation for college.) </p>
<p>Also, there is something to be said for being able to compare offers from the RD selection. Certain schools are sometimes willing to look at the offers from other schools which might exceed theirs and, at least on occasion, modify their offer to make it more competitive.</p>
<p>Yes, I know, <a href="mailto:b@rlum">b@rlum</a>. :) Knew it when I wrote it, too. I was referring to the "generic" student -- meaning typically US student as a model -- & I was trying not to be quite as negative, but yes, that's a separate issue: the additional (off-campus) work, as a foreign student, would not be legally or easily acquired. </p>
<p>I've known several foreign students who rarely or "never" go home during their U.S. stay. Those extra & extended times get expensive, and frankly become a wash, as the student must take out loans to cover those periods.</p>
<p>(And I also thought of the loan thing, too, as being a hurdle -- with domestic qualification & co-signors and all. Again, just trying not to paint the picture completely bleakly, as the OP naturally wants to be optimistic.) Nothing wrong with being optimistic as long as one has done the research first, to determine just how practical this is.</p>
<p>adrivit:</p>
<p>First you should understand that work for internationals is restricted by US federal law. It is difficult to obtain off campus jobs, but is possible. You should assume that it will take at least several months for Dartmouth (or any other US college) to obtain the required work permit. Second, a F (student) visa allows you up to 12 months after graduation to stay and work in the US in your field of study; many internationals use this option in hopes of landing an H1B visa. But, those 12 months are reduced one-to-one for any work you perform during your undergrad years. So, for example, if you work during each summer, you would reduce your optional work time in the US after graduation to 3 months.</p>
<p>btw: the entitlement (D lammed YOU') expressed on this thread is particularly troubling; such an attitude will not serve you well should you end up in Hanover.</p>
<p>I just read this whole thread and I'm feeling a little ****ed off. Frankly, Dartmouth doesn't owe you anything. So what if your grades are good? Lots of people have good enough grades and other stuff to get them in. Why should Dartmouth (if you're such a good catch that they want you and are willing to give you big bucks) have to pay for your shampoo or lunch? Are you working a job wherever you live now to help save some money for these things? I have friends that took a year off to just work so they could save money for school or went to a CC to save. I am not feeling sorry for you at all.</p>
<p>popsicle - I don't sense the OP is saying Dartmouth owes them anything. He/she just wants to increase his/her chances of getting in and getting as much financial aid as possible, and is trying to be proactive about it. And I don't think the OP is asking for pity, just information. When posters have offered suggestions, the OP has engaged in the answers. Someone who feels entitled would be sitting on their rear end. OP has considered how upset he/she will be if not admitted/not given good enough aid, but if you read all the posts, he/she wants to do ANYTHING not to burden his/her parents, who obviously have no money to contribute. I think it's admirable.</p>
<p>Ouch, that's right. I forgot to mention that part where int'l students have limited hours. At Colgate, they were allowed a mximum of about 10 hours a week. So say the wage is about $8/hour. That's $80 a week which translates to $320 a month or $960/semester if he's able to start working from the first day of classes all the way to the end of the term. It is doable but he should not expect to go crazy and join other people to frat parties, dinners in town every weekend, and any other costs that add up quickly.</p>
<p>Let me give you a link to a PHD Comic strip that deals with international student's road in obtaining an US degree (though I think it can work for a BA too, not just PhD). It's just a general view of what to expect.</p>
<p>I am confused. With the family income I have I don't even come in the picture of EFC. No methodology in the world can determine any EFC greater than zero with a family income of 2500$ and absolutely no assets. OK. Dartmouth says that it replaces all loans whatsoever with scholarships and grants. And by some sources if I can manage about 700-800$ a year for misc expenses, and I will have on-campus jobs and internships. After all this, I really can't imagine what the fuss is about. And can't I always take a small loan from Dartmouth if I really am in need?? Am I mistaken about something? Please clarify! Thanks for all the active help!!</p>
<p>PS: People who think I believe I am the greatest Dartmouth applicant ever or something ..... I DON'T!!!</p>
<p>I doubt you can just get a loan from Dartmouth whenever you want it.</p>
<p>Usually - Dartmouth may be an exception - you cannot get any loans from a college that are not part of your financial aid package, possibly with the exception of emergency funds (which you are expected to repay within a month or so).</p>