<p>crumpledpaper: (I did not mean to hijack your thread)</p>
<p>Has your daughter visited both campuses?</p>
<p>This is a case where I agree that she has to go where she would feel the most comfortable!</p>
<p>Good luck. Great choices..</p>
<p>To 1sokkermom</p>
<p>My original point was “The only question you should be asking is which school fits your daughter’s personal needs the best” can you agree with that or not?</p>
<p>^ See my previous post. I think I said the same thing. :)</p>
<p>
Cameliasinensis -</p>
<p>Great Post... I think my daughter will find it helpful. I see that you are from the greater DC area, so you may have a different perspective. Living in MA and surrounded by IVYs, we hear little of the excellent schools along the mid-atlanic coast. We came to know Swarthmore through the college search process, but have no "ingrained" sense of it's reputation relative to the IVYs. If you could touch on a few points for us, it would be very interesting....</p>
<p>Why did you apply to Swarthmore... what drew you there. I was hoping you could speculate for us... if you had been admitted to Swarthmore, would it have affected your decision to go to Dartmouth... and why or why not ? They are clearly excellent schools, both..... ?</p>
<p>Thanks !
It's funny, because in many ways I am the stereotypical Swarthmore student-- the kind of person who gets more excited talking about some obscure 600-page novel than about what happened at that party. Unlike many here, though, I don't believe that the right college is necessarily where one feels most "comfortable" socially. I believe that college is about growth, and that is true socially as well as academically (and intellectual growth will take place at either, so let's not split hairs). I would rather attend a college where I'll have to stretch to fit in the first few months than one I'll grow out of in three years; I grew out of my small, intimate private high school and had a miserable experience there, however comfortable I felt initially. I also have a feeling that going to school with 1,500 other shy, perfectionistic, analytical, self-consciously intellectual people would do strange and terrible things to my mind and general sense of well-being. ;)</p>
<p>Aside from that, I love skiing and outdoorsy things and can occasionally be quite silly... and I really wanted to get out of the Mid-Atlantic area. Finally, this is going to sound idealistic and quite possibly insane, but I spent large parts of high school being extremely unhappy (various family issues combined with attending a high school that was a terrible fit for me), and at Dartmouth I felt peaceful and exuberant and more alive than I have in quite a while. I guess that's what they call finding your people? :)</p>
<p>1sokkermom - </p>
<p>Thanks... I appreciate surfing the thread and the progressive posts. Though I am not too worried about taking measure of a school by trying to interpret the Ph.D rates, seeing others' perspectives on what is important is exactly why I posted the thread in the first place.</p>
<p>I guess one point/issue/concern that I am trying to navigate is that of weighing the balance of what seems to be a better personality fit at one school (which appears based on our perception to have slightly less recognition/cachet) vs. the value our daughter places on "seeing" herself at an explicit IVY after all the work she put in though high school (13 college courses + AP work). She will do very well in either location there is no doubt... I just don't want her to be left with the perception that she might not be at the right school. My wife and I are trying to guide by helping her figure out what is important to her.... It seems like the list is 1) highest quality academics and teaching 2) Cachet/reputation 3) Social comfort.... but I could also add campus "feel" ( we are small town folk)... Creative writing program quality... immersion based foreign language... etc...</p>
<p>As far as what she would like to do.... this is not at all clear !</p>
<p>I really think that the prestige issues aren't that important here, as far as I (and many academics) am concerned Swarthmore might as well be an Ivy. If the social fit is Swarthmore she should go there. </p>
<p>One thing about Dartmouth that might tilt it in D's direction is the language program. Between the mandatory language "drills," the language focused houses (they are very cool), the opportunity to do TWO study abroads (an LSA and FSP) its hard to beat. </p>
<p>Also creative writing has a very tight-knit community of majors and its also a strong major.</p>
<p>What do LSA and FSP stand for, slipper? I was under the impression that Dartmouth students could study abroad for the equivalent of one full academic year...just the same as students elsewhere, is that wrong?</p>
<p>Dartmouth splits its programs into two areas 1) language study abroad and (LSA) 2) foreign study program (FSP).</p>
<p>The LSA trips take the place of the third language course (i.e. spanish three) plus a literature and art history course. The trips begin with intense course instruction in Hanover which encompasses class and "drill," where every morning or afternoon you are in a quick response speaking class. Its incredible for learning how to speak before you leave for a term abroad.</p>
<p>Majors also almost all have "FSP"s which teach major related classes. Languages have these as well, and they are much more intensive than the LSAs. Many majors go on an LSA and an FSP. Examples are the Music FSP in London, the anthro FSP in New Zealand, the philosophy FSP in Edinburgh, the Environmental Studies FSP in Africa, Spanish FSP in Madrid etc.</p>
<p>Dartmouth only led programs have numerous benefits, such as a HUGE budget for outside trips and cultural excursions. Not only is a Dartmouth professor advising you and living with you the entire time (a tremendous comfort to have someone from your school managing the trip), every Saturday you go on a totally paid-for trip to museums, monasteries and cathedrals, places of cultural importance, etc. Also, there is a one week trip to another city that many students also go on. On the FSPs it might be trips into the bush in Africa, trips to the opera for music, etc. Once again, its all Dartmouth students with a professor plus local faculty.</p>
<p>Since Dartmouth is on the quarter system, these programs last for one quarter. 2/3 of students go on at least one study abroad, 1/3 go on two, and about 15% go on three. This doesn't count in funded thesis research, which is also popular but self designed. I got a $10K grant to do anthro research in Micronesia for example. Nothing like having Dartmouth pay to have you live on an paradise of an island doing research under the starts by candlelight. In one year I personally did this thesis research (Winter), an LSA in Spain (Spring) and and FSP in the UK (Fall).</p>
<p>I was accepted at Dartmouth and Swarthmore ( and a few other schools) as well. After visiting both, I finally ruled out Dartmouth.
Don't get me wrong....I really liked Dartmouth,...I just prefered Swarthmore. Its setting is unique (set within an arboretum and yet less than 20 miles to Philadelphia). I also felt more akin to the students at Swat.</p>
<p>See, I think the idea of going on multiple shorter study abroad programs with people from my home school would be horrifying to me. I'd want to do a study abroad to get away from my comfort zone - one place, one year, with as few people I know from home as possible (preferably directly enrolling at another school). The shorter multiple Dartmouth led programs probably have benefits for some people, but I don't think they'd be for everyone. </p>
<p>OP, are you going to be on financial aid?</p>
<p>The $10K grant sounds awesome, but I think a lot of schools give similar things...Swarthmore has a higher per student endowment/spending than Dartmouth, I know that Amherst gives out many similar grants, and I've received two already (albeit each was only a bit over $1,000, but I am a freshman and didn't apply for the bigger ones...I assume Swarthmore probably has similar grants available to students.) </p>
<p>OP, if I had to choose between the two, I would have a very tough time as well. They both seem like lovely, but very different, schools. I don't think anyone could give a good sense of which would be a better choice because it would entirely come down to personal preference.</p>
<p>brn2bld:</p>
<p>Did you get accepted off the waitlist at Dartmouth ? good for you.</p>
<p>When did you find out?</p>
<p>(On March 27 you posted that you had been waitlisted at Dartmouth.) I am surprised to see them accept students off the waitlist so soon. I know someone who was waitlisted, and they have not heard anything.</p>
<p>congrats on your acceptance, brn2bld.</p>
<p>if you are waitlisted you don't hear anything more unless you are offered admission... so the "someone" 1sokkermom refers to would not hear anything unless they are moved off the waitlist....</p>
<p>I was asking brn2bld, not tommybill. </p>
<p>It seemed very early to get off a waitlist. I thought most schools didn't start going to the waitlists until all the decisions were in from those offered admissions.</p>
<p>May 1 (today) is a deadline for many schools to get decisions from those offered admissions. I'm sure it takes awhile for them to notify students off the waitlist. </p>
<p>Maybe not?</p>
<p>This is where I read something about waitlists. </p>
<p>According to this article, "Admission offers to waitlisted students will start going out in May, after schools receive "yes" or "no" answers from their first round of admissions by the end of this month."</p>
<p>I remember discussing this with my sister. Her daughter (my niece) was waitlisted at two schools. Dartmouth was not one of them. (However, we have a neighbor whose son was waitlisted at Dartmouth.) Neither one of them has heard anything about waitlist status.</p>
<p>1sokkermom </p>
<p>You ask a question….I knew the answer…so I gave it…</p>
<p>I have only read your comments in this thread but you seem to have a standard format…if you disagree with someone you ask a question that just slightly questions the honesty of the person your are writing about…then you ask questions that further bring the other persons integrity into questions….I did not mind when you did it to me….but I thought it was uncalled for to do it to some kid who is just starting out in his college career…</p>
<p>Gee tommybill,
Thanks for the comment. I don't think your answer was what I was looking for.
I was asking a question specifically to a poster who claims that they were off the waitlist at Dartmouth and had been accepted. The reason I asked is that there are other posters who are often deceptive on these threads, and spout out a lot of things that may not be completely accurate. That is really not fair to the other posters who are looking for information. There may be some posters who thought that waitlist candidates have all been notified. In the case of Dartmouth, it is not clear whether any waitlist candidates have been offered admission yet. So, thanks for your response,but it still didn't answer my question.</p>
<p>I am glad you are concerned about this poor kid. I am also concerned that he/she tells the truth to the other posters who may be reading his/her posts.</p>
<p>From following the action at College Confidential for several years, waitlist acceptances often are offered long before the May 1st date. </p>
<p>The reason is simple. Waitlists are primarily used to "top off" the freshman class with students having specific interests. To use a shopworn analogy, if a school finds out on April 5th that the "oboe player" decided to go to Harvard, the admissions office might well turn immediately to the oboe player on the waitlist.</p>
<p>As for Swarthmore versus Dartmouth, the two schools are so radically different in terms of campus culture and those differences can be so easily discerned based even on guidebook blurbs that I think each student really has to trust his or her gut. </p>
<p>I have close relatives currently enrolled as juniors in both schools so have had the opportunity to hear the "war stories" from both.</p>
<p>If Ph D production is not of interest perhaps this link will help some…it shows which undergraduate schools people at high end medical, law and business schools went to…</p>