<p>Any info? In terms of prestige, grad school placement, and overall education</p>
<p>Honestly, I wouldn't choose one of these two over the other one for any of those reasons. I would choose on what kind of atmosphere you want.</p>
<p>I agree with Slipper. Campus culture/ambience issues would be the biggies.</p>
<p>One to consider is the role of fraternities/sororities. Dartmouth's most recent data shows that 39% of the undergrad men join fraternties and 33% of the women join sororities. Considering that freshmen are not allowed to join. This means that approximately one out of every two Dartmouth sophmores, juniors, and seniors is a Greek member.</p>
<p>This is a very high percentage, especially for a northeast elite college. The impact of fraternities and sororites on the campus social scene will be very strong</p>
<p>Conversely though, the frat system at Dartmouth is very atypical. You won't find the "guest lists" and selective doorman you find at other schools. The frat system is basically an excuse for everyone to get together. Its much more laid back than any other school I have been to. You can literally walk into any house and get on the next pong table. I think of it like a city with different bars, free drinks, and where you are friends with everyone.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You can literally walk into any house and get on the next pong table.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Right. Going from frat house to frat house to play beer pong drinking games is a very different social scene than Swarthmore. </p>
<p>If that's what you are looking for from a college social scene, then Dartmouth would be the better choice as hard core drinking plays less of a role in the social scene at Swat.</p>
<p>Many Swarthmore students do go to one of the all-campus parties on a weekend night, get sweaty dancing, and have a few beers, but it is more typically late (from say midnight to closing time at 2:00 am) after a campus concert or going into Philly for dinner with a group of friends.</p>
<p>You can do the frat house thing if you like, but it's a very small part of the social scene (about 7% of the male students, no sororities). </p>
<p>Just depends what you are lookin' for.</p>
<p>There are plenty who do the same at Dartmouth. And while Pong is usually going on at the houses, there are also dance parties, plenty of off campus house parties, cultural house parties, dorm parties, etc. </p>
<p>Philly might not be next door, but I found not having a city to detract from the community a great asset.</p>
<p>I don't think easy access to the city detracts from Swarthmore's campus community. Its strong community is probably the single biggest defining characteristic of its campus culture. The access to the city just provides an opportunity to spend a few hours outside the ivory tower every once in a while. Different kids do different things: cultural stuff like the Phila Orchestra or the museums, ethnic stuff like restaurants or Chinatown, entertainment stuff like concerts or indie rock clubs, etc. Pennsylvania is very strict on IDs, so not much underage "clubbin'".</p>
<p>Neither school has a large number of students living off campus (Dartmouth has 17%, Swarthmore 6%). Both would be considered to be very campus oriented schools.</p>
<p>Regarding the students at each:</p>
<p>When I visisted Swarthmore, most of the students there were very friendly, but a little nerdy. It strikes me as a very intellectual place, lots of philosophical discussions over coffee and that kind of thing. I also got the impression Swarthmore is very wary of jocks and tends to be anti-sports (as proven by the removal of their football program recently). One thing that turned me off though, was the fact that Swarthmore tends to be very tough on pre-meds- no grade inflation there!</p>
<p>I think Dartmouth students are more laid-back. Most are very natural, unpretentious, very wholesome and outdoorsy. Lots of native Maine and Vermont-ers who've grown up on skis and Pacific West Coast (meaning Washington and Oregon) students looking for a home away from home. Although Dartmouth is slightly homogenous in a white, New England, preppy kind of way, I certainly don't think it's elitist or snobby at all.</p>
<p>As a Division I school, Dartmouth clearly has larger sports programs. Although, I don't think Swarthmore is "anti-sports". A larger percentage of the student body plays on a varsity sports team (22% of the men/21% of the women) than at Dartmouth (15%/17%) -- typical of small liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>The football decision at Swat wasn't anti-football. It was an acknowledgement of admissions reality. There are only 725 male students. It takes 10% of that to field a football team. And, in today's sports enviroment, it takes recruiting a significant number of low "stat" football players to even be remotely competitive -- something that has eluded both Dartmouth's and Swat's football teams for quite some time! </p>
<p>Swarthmore could not devote the increased number of low-stat slots that the football team demanded AND the number of low-stat slots to achieve their priority emphasis on diversity. Basically, it was football, diversity, high academic standards: pick any two.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. There is not a huge difference in diversity: Swat 62% white (or unknown), Dartmouth 67%. They are both very diverse campuses by East Coast standards. Both have about the same percentage receiving financial aid (51% or so).</p>
<p>swarthmore is a great place, particularly if you think you will thrive in a highly intellectual, close-knit community, and want to be academically challenged.</p>
<p>it is very anti-football, however. (not that this is a bad or good thing--it's just how it is).</p>
<p>when i was looking at swarthmore and spent the weekend there (5 years ago, admittedly) i remember there being a very palpable tension between the football players and the rest of campus--one that transcended any jock/nerd conflict that i had every seen. i also remember being turned off by how intense it was</p>
<p>
[quote]
5 years ago, admittedly
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course! Five years ago was the date the Board of Managers voted to abolish the football program! The "tension" surrounding that decision was immense, including a "sit-in" protest of the admissions office, very angry student forums with the President, etc.</p>
<p>It was the second biggest uproar in the history of the school. The first being the 1969 week-long takeover of the administration building by the Swarthmore Afro-American Student Society, which turned really serious when the President of the College keeled over dead of a heart attack while negotiating their demands!</p>
<p>All of the contemporaneous articles from the time are available in the Phoenix archives:</p>
<p>Look at the brouhaha at Dartmouth this year just because it came out that their Dean of Admission wrote a letter to the Pres. of Swarthmore five years ago applauding him for his decision to eliminate football. They want the guy's head at Dartmouth over a stinkin' five year old letter. It's a topic that generates a lot of heat!</p>
<p>It's pretty much old news at Swarthmore. None of the current four classes were at Swat when there was a football team so the current students don't know any difference. For the most part, the alumni have started to settle down, too.</p>
<p>There's not much of a rah-rah, "go team" atmosphere at Swat, but there's no tension, no segregated "jock dorms", etc.</p>
<p>I can't speak to what Dartmouth is like exactly, but Swarthmore is uber-intellectual. When I was there (graduated '03), I knew a lot of students whose second-choice school was the University of Chicago, notwithstanding that we could have gone to Ivies or one of the other two members of the Amherst-Swarthmore-Williams trifecta.</p>
<p>id pick Dartmouth in a heartbeat.....</p>