I was admitted to these three colleges (and many others which I have eliminated) and am having a hard time deciding which school to attend. I am currently interested in studying computer science and economics but am open to changing and exploring in college.
I like Dartmouth because of its focus on undergraduate education, but I am concerned about its isolation and greek “party” scene. Also, Berkeley and Cornell seem to be much better at CS. I like Berkeley because although there are so many students, there are so many opportunities and resources waiting for me as long as I take initiative and ask. Its CS and economics departments are top notch and the weather is also a bonus. But I don’t know if UCB is that great for undergrads/if its too competitive. Cornell seems like a mix between the two. What are your thoughts/advice?
Hi, I’m a Dartmouth student so I’m a bit biased but Dartmouth is increasing the size of their CS department and their focus on it. They are currently constructing a brand new building for CS that should be done in the coming year. Also, all the top CS jobs recruit on campus (Microsoft, Google, LinkedIn, Facebook, etc.). In addition, Dartmouth’s Economics department is also really great with smaller class sizes and easy access to professors.
In regards to the “party” scene, that is an aspect of Dartmouth, but not one your forced into. Only around 60% of undergrads (i think) are involved in greek like, and there are a lot of other spaces for you to hangout with friends. For example, at our student center we have a pool room which is always a fun place to hangout with friends on nights and shoot some people.
All good schools are “competitive” so that shouldn’t be a determining factor whatsoever. Especially given the 3 schools you are comparing. Whenever someone gives you an opinion that it’s “too competitive” that person saying it usually has some racial undertones behind it.
@danlo9812 : As a longtime resident of Bezerkeley whose daughter went to Dartmouth instead of Cal, I’ll offer these thoughts. D initially [early junior year of high school] thought that Dartmouth was too isolated and remote. She had done a summer debate program there and said something along the lines of, “If I can’t stand two months, how can I handle four years?” Well, she chose Dartmouth over Berkeley and Harvard, and I never heard any complaints. Yeah, Hanover doesn’t have the restaurants/cafes/theaters/museums of Berkeley [much less the greater Bay Area], but are you really going to college for those things? I don’t know a single graduate of the college who has complained about being bored in Hanover.
I think @Adele123 has handled the Greek scene aspect nicely and, to my knowledge, accurately. My kid enjoyed the parties and even joined a sorority [which was a big surprise to this Berkeley dad] but they were not a major part of her experience, so I would say you can partake or not as you choose. The parties are not exclusive/excluding, and they are an available social outlet.
I will yield to @Adele123 regarding the CS department as well. I’ll just offer this story, which I have told before so those of you have read it already, please forgive me. My daughter took one CS class. [I think maybe it hit two distrib requirements?] It was taught by the chairman of the department. How many other places does the chair teach an intro class? I had occasion to email him a few years later. He still remembered her. That said a lot to me about the strength of the college’s attention to undergraduates. Of course, her habit of wearing a San Francisco Giants cap all the time may have helped his memory, so take that for what it’s worth.
You cannot go wrong with any of the three schools. Congratulations on having those choices. My bottom line is that I cannot see you regret the choice if you end up at Dartmouth.
Warm regards, ATS
instate for Cal? If not, I’d choose one of the two privates for similar money. Just more value for your buck, IMO.
Or maybe race has absolutely nothing to do with it. For example, premed at Cal or UCLA is brutally competitive. Doesn’t matter if the person’s color is green, approximately a quarter if not more of L&S students are premed coming in. Many of them have already aced a bunch of AP courses but are taking them over for the ‘easy A’. Yet, only about a 1/4th of them will actually earn that A. Race ain’t got nothing to do with grading.
Of the quarter of undergrads in L&S who start as premed, only a few will get thru the gauntlet and apply to med school. I would guess that Cornell is similar. That is color-blind competition.
maybe it’s because I pay attention to the Berkeley threads more, but I have never seen anyone post an opinion where someone thought that Harvard, for example, was “too competitive”, yet in the past 3 weeks I have seen at least 15 threads alluding to this regarding Berkeley. Yeah, any Ivy League school is going to be brutally competitive and yes, so are all the top 20 or 30 or 40 schools in the country. I think the article I posted has a lot of truth in it, maybe too much truth.
Berkeley, the city, has become a little unsafe in the south part of town, more gun crime, but so nice to be on BART
to get to SF and all that city has to offer.
Ithaca is very safe college town,with two colleges Ithaca College focuses on music and offers great concerts, just south of Cornell. Cornell is bigger than Dartmouth with a large variety of practical students studying hotel management, agriculture, architecture, engineering, and active beautiful campus, but no city nearby either.
At Cornell, be prepared for rainy, and snowy, cold weather, and you need to enjoy scenic beauty to be happy there, stunning river gorges, suspension bridges, steep hills and waterfalls, and the isolation of Upstate NY. Cornell is an excellent academic choice, because engineering is more similar to Berkeley’s level, if any computational/ applied computer science interests you. Dartmouth offers strong liberal arts but not all the collaborations you will find at Cornell or Berkeley between engineering/CS and math.
Ithaca has a hippy flavor, a small downtown, an active Farmer’s market, thats festival-like, with
music and art, near Lake Cayuga, good hockey team at Cornell.
Go on google earth and “walk around” each campus and town. Ithaca is a small city of about 31,000 but the student population adds another 27,000 or so.
I admit I read the article quickly, but to me it appeared to be more about race than a culture of education.
But one of the competitive issues that exist at Cal (and UCLA) is capped majors. Thus, one has to have a decent (B+) average in “pre-major” courses to be able to even declare the major. While B’s are definitely doable, there is no guarantee. Moreover, what about the student who really wants to be a Comp Sci major but only has a 3.0 in the pre-major courses? Sorry kid, you are SOL. (of course, they can grovel/appeal, or become an English major).
Moving into Haas is even worse – essentially a A- average required to get into Haas. For b-school wannabes, does one roll the dice to get into a top program like Haas, or take a guaranteed entrance to a ‘lesser’ b-school?
I don’t know how that is not more pressure/more competition from the first day of Orientation. Whereas at Harvard (or Dartmouth), one can major in Econ/CS with a C- (or worse).
But I forgot to add earlier about Dartmouth: it is quite competitive in Econ, as there are plenty of gunners aiming for Goldman Sachs and other iBanks.
Now, little of this applies to the OP. Someone who has the chops to get into an Ivy+, should be able to do well at Cal. But let’s not ignore the fact that there are plenty of folks gunning for a B+ so that they can just be able to enroll in the major two years hence.
For example, the first required premajor Frosh course in CS has a B- average. In other words, over half the kids in this class, likely most of whom what to be a CS major, or already behind the 8-ball so to speak.
(And this doesn’t even speak to the nearly 2,000 students in the class that is essentially being run by TA’s.)
@Adele123 How many students on average would you say are able to secure an internship/job with said top CS companies? I am aware that with the D-plan, students can intern in the winter as well.
Do you know anything about the difficulty of the CS classes? Econ classes? I’ve heard some concerns that because Dartmouth is less competitive and more relaxed, Dartmouth graduates can be viewed as “underprepared” in the work field.
@bluebayou I would be paying out of state tuition. I’m from the greater New York area so weather at Dartmouth or Cornell isn’t a large issue.
What happens if one fails to make it through the gauntlet at UCB? I think I’ll do fine, but asking out of curiosity.
But also, does that make CS students less social because they’re constantly studying to beat the curve and to be able to declare their major as CS?
How hard is it to get into Haas and receive a BS BA? What’s the acceptance rate, etc? I’ve heard that it’s a crapshoot and it often doesn’t make sense why some people are accepted and others are not.
If you don’t meet any required GPA to apply for the major of your choice, then you have to major in another discipline that is not capped, or has a lower GPA requirement.
Entrance into Haas is even more competitive – generally, a ~3.7 is needed (for unhooked) in the pre-req courses.
I think many of the reasons you’d choose cornell over Cal, would lead you to choose dartmouth over cornell.
so I’d compare Cal vs Dartmouth and decide that way.
I don’t keep up, but back in the day Dartmouth was actually pretty good in CS, and math, for its size.
Of course one would need to investigate, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still plenty good enough, for undergrad.
In which case: the thing with a smaller school is they have more pronounced prevailing campus cultures, which it can be more important to fit with because they just have fewer students. So I would say that if you think you fit well at Dartmouth that’s a potential big plus.
But then from what I read you actually don’t think you do fit all that well at Dartmouth. So there’s that.
In that case: personally I prefer that campus-centered environment at Cornell more than what I’ve seen of Berkeley. So I might pick Cornell. YMMV. FWIW a number of D2s Cornell acquaintances have found their way to the west coast afterwards.
congrats @danlo9812 don’t be afraid to be assertive in getting the resources you need, networking, and taking the initiative - it’s important at state schools. best.