<p>My one suggestion – before deciding that your daughter cannot go to this school, call the financial aid office and discuss your finances with them. I realize that the chance that they will give you more money is small, but it is worth a try.</p>
<p>OP…I agree with your thinking about the cost/benefit for a European history degree. I am not bashing history degrees (one of my B.A. degrees is in history); however, I’m presuming she’ll most likely teach. Unless her aspirations are to teach at an elite college, she will be just fine getting her degree at a state u. (Both my bachelor degrees and masters are from state u’s, and I teach at a reputable college prep. Most of my colleagues have degrees from similar institutions.) I would most definitely not allow my D to jeopardize our family financially. I might be a bit more willing to try and make it work if your D, for example, had always wanted to be a computer progammer and had just gotten into Stanford or Carnegie Mellon or perhaps had dreams of working for NASA performing complex math and had just been admitted to MIT, but for what she’s wanting to study, it simply won’t matter. </p>
<p>You stated she’s aware of your family’s financial problems…is she okay with y’all selling your home, cleaning out savings, etc. just for her? If so, which college to attend isn’t your biggest problem. I can understand her being disappointed; however, there are great public schools (especially in CA) that I would argue would provide her with more opportunities than the LAC.</p>
<p>“I loathe the term “dream school.” Truly. Far too many tears have been shed over this false notion that there is only match for any student.”</p>
<p>Dreaming about school is a really sad notion.</p>
<p>I have one son heading for senior year at a Eastern Connecticut State Universtiy here in Connecticut doing very well (History and English major) and he loves it there. My 2cd son will be college freshman in the fall and has applied to 7 schools (5 private and 2 state). He has heard from 4 colleges so far and all are throwing merit money at him (Top student). The most so far is 20 k for a school that will cost 54 k per year. (Fairfield University) He wants to be a business major. I can’t see coming up with 34 k for undergraduate degree and burying him and us in debt for years after he gets out. Uconn (State School) has offered 4 k in merit money on school that has price tag of 21k for in state student. We would have to come up with 17 k a year for one of the top Public Universities in North East which we can easliy afford and he will come out of school with no debt. I’m doing the math and it just makes too much sence to send him to UCONN. His dream school is Providence College and we are waiting to see what they offer. (Find out in mid Jan). It’s another 50 k plus school. I think the “dream” will be more of a “nightmare” if we overextend ourselves trying to make it happen.
I can see going into debt for a Masters degree at a top Private school but not for undergraduate degree when the state schools are so good here in Ct. (Affordable as well) I can’t speak for how the state schools size up in other states but Connecticut has some of the top public universities in the Northeast.
I’ve enjoyed the college visits and it was fun living the dream with my son but now it’s game time and reality is setting in. He may be upset if he can’t go to PC but he will do well whereever he goes and we’re very proud of him. Maybe he can go to PC for his masters. Go Huskies.</p>
<p>I liked NervusBreakdown’s post. Too many details are missing here for us to give any opinions that are grounded in reality. A family sit down might work well in resolving this, as Nervus said.</p>
<p>Has the original poster let the financial aid at the dream school know about his unemployment? That can make a big difference sometimes.</p>
<p>I was a strong booster for our state university, for all of our kids. But two of them got into private “dream schools,” one with huge financial aid, but the other one at considerable cost for us (relatively speaking: our EFC is very low but this school did not meet need). I was adamantly against the latter.</p>
<p>However, our son said he would make it work, and he did, and he says he would not trade the experience for anything. He met people from all over the world, and the professors were amazing.</p>
<p>He was able to work on campus, during breaks and in summer internships, and the career office at his school provided great connections for a job after graduation. We ended up paying only half the costs: he paid the rest. </p>
<p>History is a great major for all kinds of careers. I just worked in the development office of a regional organization that owns historic properties and runs them as museums. They employ teachers for school programs, archivists, tour guides, fundraisers, and writers - you name it. Public history is a fascinating new field to work in. And the writing and research skills for that major apply to many, many jobs.</p>
<p>I think it’s great that this daughter loves history and is excited about studying it. Without knowing the parents’ ages or health, what the mom does for work, what their savings are, etc. etc. I would still advocate for sending her to the school she wants if at all possible.</p>
<p>If the Dad doesn’t find work, then more aid will be possible, and if he does, then perhaps they will be able to swing it. Selling the house is a strategy a lot of us are using for this situation, too. Doesn’t mean a tent, just maybe a smaller house or condo in a less expensive setting.</p>
<p>Maybe we’ll all meet in a shelter one day: we still have a third one to go. But I’m surprised to say that for our kids, so far, the choices have been worth it.</p>
<p>Nobody’s saying history isn’t a great major. But there are great places to study it that won’t require the student to go into six-figure student loan debt that will follow her around for more than a decade.</p>
<p>I would suggest to the OP that she have her daughter look into more WUE schools. I was a California resident, and took advantage of WUE to attend a OOS public flagship, the University of Idaho. There, I got a great and fairly intimate education (enrollment ~12,000) in a college-town environment at a cost my parents could afford.</p>
<p>From one father to an other, she needs to go to a state school and transfer up if she has the means to in the future. One issue that bothered me was that you are concerned about her hating you. She should feel honored to have a parent like you that’s willing to sacrifice so much to send her to college. She’s a young adult now so some of the sacrifice must be shared by her. Even as the 18 year old young punk that I was(I’m 36 now), I would have NEVER let my family sell their home or go into extreme debt for me. Especially, with your employment status. She’s at a point where she should start making decisions that are best for the family as a whole.</p>
<p>First, the idea of selling your home isn’t an option!!! You’ll have your home on the market for a long time and when you do sell you’ll lose your shirt. That will cause so much undue stress. You’ll also lose the tax benefits you’ve earned by having your home.</p>
<p>Second, you’re not employed yet. You shouldn’t make any bold moves at this point that you can’t recover from. </p>
<p>Third, she is going to college regardless. I’m sure she can swing some good scholarships from other schools. Also, her major isn’t going to yield her much of an income regardless of what school she attends, so why waste the money on an expensive private school when she can get essentially the same from a cheaper school?</p>
<p>Fourth, she needs to own some of the responsibility of making it possible for her to attend college in a financial sense. She may have to make sacrifices and she should. The faster she learns that sacrifice is necessary the better off she’ll be as an adult. </p>
<p>I know we as parents want to give our kids the best, but I think you should do what’s affordable and not necessarily what she wants. She’s an adult now, let her step up to the plate. If she kicks butt in a state school for two years she can get a transfer scholarship to the college of her choice. I’ve made sacrifices for my family and so have you, It’s her turn to sacrifice some my friend. Lay out all the numbers so everyone can understand what you’re saying. Have options in your mind ready and take a stand. Good luck with your conversation.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for the responses. Yes I agree “dream School” is a bad term, and it’s not really a dream school in this case, just her #1 choice. She wasn’t even aware this school existed a year ago.</p>
<p>I tried to call the FA office yesterday but they’re closed, So I’ll contact them in Jan. but don’t expect they can help much more. Yes, they are aware of my employment status.</p>
<p>I know she isn’t going to hate me forever, or at all, just upset for a while, I can live with that, I have to. </p>
<p>Regarding getting rid of the house, it’s happening, we’d do it regardless of this college situation, there are others issues at play I don’t want to go into. Thanks for your concern though, I’m well aware of tax implications, timelines etc. There will be no capital gains.</p>
<p>I will be employed soon, I have several irons in the fire that will come to fruition soon, not worried about that.</p>
<p>We will not go into massive debt to pay for college, Stafford loans and that’s it. We will pay for it out of our incomes, we make good salaries. Just didn’t save enough, it’s a lot more expensive than we had planned.</p>
<p>Visited Chico, that was a BIG no, nefew went there and also advised against it. We prefer urban campus environment. D would rather go to SJSU or SF State than Chico or Sonoma. Yes she wants to move away, that’s cool with us, and we have some other options to allow for that. There are no younger kids. Older D goes to SJSU and lives on campus, loves it BTW.</p>
<p>Part of my reason for posting this is so that wife and daughter can read other opinions. They know mine and think I’m just being “Debbie Downer”, mr. pessimist, I admit that I do have a history of that. Also want to sanity check myself to see if I am in fact being too pessimistic. Of course I know you all don’t know all the facts, and I don’t care to share all of them. AND the advice of a group of strangers is hard to put a ton of credence in, but still it’s something and I thank you for your efforts. Many of you have lived through this stuff and your advice is valuable to me.</p>
<p>Merry Christmas!!</p>
<p>If she’s looking for an urban campus environment, maybe take a look at the University of Nevada flagship campus in Reno? Big city in a beautiful area, good school and reasonable cost. I have several friends who went there and loved it.</p>
<p>Not a parent but a student. I am actually in this situation. I got into my top school but i am transferring because 1) the school does not have my major and 2) its financially impossible. Before this i attended my safety and could not stand it. Fortunately my 1st school accepted me two weeks into the semester…thats another story. Anyways, my point is that your daughter should not settle for the state school because she will be miserable. Also she should not attend a school that you cannot afford. Your just delaying the heartbreak when the funds run out. The best thing to do is to get her into a school that she likes and is financially affordable. I will end with this; this is why it is important to love thy safety. This is the biggest lesson i have learned.</p>
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<p>Depends on the state flagship/institution. The ones in NY state were such that several high classmates…even the ones graduating at the bottom of our graduating class felt unchallenged/bored even in the honors programs and frustrated with an inflexible red-tape laden bureaucracy when they wanted to take more advanced courses. </p>
<p>Every one of them ended up transferring up to topflight private schools like Reed, Columbia, Cornell, and Brown and felt happier to be among their academic peers rather than feeling held back by underprepared and/or less academically motivated students and with bureaucracies that were better about allowing them to take more advanced courses if they were so inclined. </p>
<p>Depending on the LAC and the state institutions on the table, the OP’s daughter may end up dealing with similar issues that my high school classmates experienced.</p>
<p>OP- the greatest gift you can give your kids is that they don’t have to take care of you in your old age. Many of us on this board have been in the position of providing all or partial care for aging relatives whose money ran out before they did, or who needed in-home care not covered by insurance, or whose long term care insurance covered three years of nursing care but they needed 10. </p>
<p>I would also be happy to live in the tent with you and eat rice. But my elderly parents? Not so much. If you think you feel guilty not being able to pay for your D’s private tuition, imagine how guilty you’ll feel moving in on her, a husband, couple of kids, when she’s in her prime earning years and you need help dressing or eating after a stroke but you’ve been kicked out of the rehab center. Do you want her to quit her job to take care of you?</p>
<p>There are many things worth sacrificing for a college education- drive an old car, wear unfashionable clothes, vacation at a local museum and go to the Tuesday $1 matinee, learn to make your own pizza and invite the neighbors over for a cheap “date night”. But once you skate too close to the edge that’s where you lose me. If you have no or minimal savings and presumably you are both unemployed and 15 years away from retiring- selling your house to downsize and lower your expenses is a smart thing to do. Selling it to plop the equity into college tuition is a very short-sighted financial plan. Best case- you get a great job soon, your FA evaporates, and you are still stretched paying tuition with no chance of bulking up your savings. Worst case- you get the job in August not January, house sells in May, not February, new buyers insist on a new heating system and new roof before closing (which you pay for), new job is great but the medical plan costs double what the last one did. Oh, and your D decides she wants to become a Vet so she’ll need 5 years of college not 4 so she can take the pre-reqs for Vet school.</p>
<p>Which private school are we talking about?</p>
<p>OP, our family’s story will give you food for thought. First, I have to say I almost didn’t “dare” to click on this thread because I feared that respondents to the OP would say Come on now, college is an investment! You must pay for it any way you can! Take on debt, make it happen… We parents hear that advice A LOT.</p>
<p>Here’s our story. Two years ago, our daughter got accepted at her 1st choice school. It’s a top-tier school. She understood that we could never afford it, $50k, not even close. But then the school offered her a nice big grant that covered nearly all but our family’s EFC. Wow! Everybody was happy & proud, and we were deeply grateful.</p>
<p>This small LA school claims that it meets 100% of the need of its financial aid applicants. Endowment is reportedly $500m+</p>
<p>Our daughter did very well her freshman year, A’s. What a kid!</p>
<p>For her sophomore year, the school offered a smaller grant – but okay, our income had sort of gone up and we could afford the rest of the bill. My hand shook as I wrote the check, but okay. Our daughter’s good grades continued.</p>
<p>Then it was time for the junior-year bill. Our income had definitely gone down as shown on our FA forms, so we hoped that a sizable grant would be offered again. We were in for a shock. The total cost (which had risen $4k since fr year!) was reduced by a small grant, and the rest of our financial aid was offered as a combination of loans. $30k in loans for the junior year.</p>
<p>To state the obvious: a loan is not a grant.</p>
<p>Now we were looking at borrowing $30k, and likely $30k again for senior year. You all can easily picture how shocked, sad and distressed we were. I contacted the FA office, they talked up the variety of loans available, PLUS Loans, etc. Bottom line: unless your family’s numbers have changed since you completed the recent FAFSA + Profile, then the package is what it is.</p>
<p>Tough, tough time. For us, $60k was a VERY big amount to borrow, much more than we’d ever planned to. Still, it was painfully hard to consider transferring out of a wonderful school to go to a lower priced state school. Our daughter liked her college and had done well. Tough time for us.</p>
<p>We sat down at the kitchen table and talked about it, looked at all the numbers. It really hurt, but we faced the reality: it was too much debt. Our daughter, an incredibly sensible person, said okay to transferring to a state school. She was sad, but she understood.</p>
<p>I thought it was the right decision, but I had a terrible feeling that I’d failed as a parent. That feeling lingers to this day.</p>
<p>We visited in-state campuses in July and in the fall she started her junior year at a nice little campus (coincidentally the same size as her old school). The transition was hard, quite hard some days she told us. It’s a good school but it isn’t as lovely nor as intellectual as her old school. She also missed her friends from the old school.</p>
<p>Financially she doesn’t qualify for any financial aid at the new school, but it’s okay because the total cost is less than 1/3 of the cost of the old school. We can afford it. Next year we might have to take out a small loan, but it’s a debt size we can live with.</p>
<p>So…I feared that this thread would stir up sore feelings, but I just had to read it. Hey, what do you know? A lot of folks are talking about down-to-earth realities here. There <em>is</em> such a thing as too much debt! Maybe a good, affordable school is a wiser choice than a dream school with decades of debt…</p>
<p>P.S., I forgot to finish with a little bit about how things are going now, half-way through the transition year. Praise be, things are going very well. After a rough couple of weeks, our daughter made new friends, joined the Honor Society, and gradually got the hang of her new school. And she likes it very much. Her grades are good (she says the workload is much easier) and she’s taking advantage of any extra-curricular activities & programs that interest her. Dare I say it, she seems content.</p>
<p>As for my wife and I, quite honestly it’s a relief to have tuition bills we can afford without breaking into a cold sweat.</p>
<p>OP, I wish you and your family the best. Whatever you decide, good luck & God bless!</p>
<p>bluesky - what a story! Kudos to you and your family for making such a hard decision. Why did the FA change so much for junior year? That seems so unfair. I think your story is very valuable. My older son gets substantial FA (grant money) from his university - and I spend half the year nervously awaiting the FA award letter in June. Sophomore year was a little less grant money than freshman year - now you have me even more worried about junior year!</p>
<p>Now that we are preparing to do this again with younger son - we are strongly leaning towards less expensive schools that we can pretty much afford on our own. At least that way I feel more in control of the situation - understanding that the COA will go up a bit every year - but at least not having to worry about reapplying for FA every year and being worried about what they are going to give us or not give us each year.</p>
<p>Your post is quite the cautionary tale.</p>
<p>bluesky, that does seem unfair. I am sorry that your DD had to transfer. I would have had my children transfer as well in your DD’s situation.</p>
<p>We looked for a private U that after merit money might be very close to the cost of our instate public U and also would have a benchmark of 2.0 or as close to 2.0 as possible to keep the merit aid. We did find such a school. It was so hard for us to find, but we did find it. Most importantly, our son needed to want to attend. Fortunately, all of the stars lined up for us.</p>
<p>blueskytwilight, I’m really curious. I heard the exact same story from a student at USC, could you just say “yes” or “no”? If this is a perpetual situation I don’t think it hurts for parents to be forewarned.</p>
<p>bluesky… they do survive (as noted by your D and my son thriving in an earlier post)… the upset does go away … but at the time of making those decisions it seems so difficult as our hearts and theirs are on our sleeves. congrats to your D</p>
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<p>That’s a big question and I wish I knew the answer. 1st year bill: $24,000 after $20k in grants. 3rd year bill: $44,000 after grants. And our family income had dropped considerably. It doesn’t make sense. Very sore topic for me.</p>
<p>Regarding the 3rd year bill of $44k, they said they were offering 100% financial aid to us. But they were offering LOANS whereas they’d offered GRANTS for the first 2 years. Big difference!</p>
<p>No doubt about it: if the 1st year bill had been anywhere near $44k, we would never have enrolled our daughter there. IOW, had we known what was coming, we would have chosen a different school.</p>
<p>I couldn’t get a real explanation from the FA office. I said, how can this be, especially since our income has gone down for the past 2 years? The reply was that the formulas are what the formulas are. They would not talk about WHY, only about options for borrowing, spreading out the payments, etc.</p>
<p>Who knows? I was talking with another parent who is himself a professor at a different SLAC and he said a number of small liberal arts colleges have seen their endowments sink in the past 2-3 years from the banking crisis, etc.</p>
<p>I don’t think the situation described above is typical. Most schools that offer to meet 100% of need say that the FA will remain the same while the conditions are the same. I understand year two – the situation had changed. But if the financial need returned, most schools would give awards that reflected that. I’m not clear why this school didn’t.</p>
<p>If the school does not pledge to meet 100% of need all bets are off.</p>
<p>However, I am happy for your family that your D made a good adjustment.</p>