<p>My daughter has a list of eight schools. Four reaches, two matches, two safeties, most of which she has visited. She just bailed on one of her safeties, saying she would never want to go there if she were admitted. That takes us down to seven schools.</p>
<p>She wants my advice. I am struggling. I can see why she is not enthusiastic about the schools that would be safeties or easy matches for her. </p>
<p>Also, I have seen many threads here where kids are excited about a school enough to apply but then they lose their enthusiasm as the time to enroll gets closer. I imagine this is even more of a problem if the enthusiasm during the application phase was lacking.</p>
<p>I am thinking of telling her that she should apply to 2-3 more reaches. The theory would be that perhaps more of a shotgun approach would result in a lightening bolt of good fortune and she would get admitted at a reach. If not, then she would go to her match (our state school). Her ACT puts her in the low end of the middle 50% of all the top schools, so thinking "reach" isn't a total pipe dream.</p>
<p>Another possibility is to have her pick some match schools based on . . . well, based on nothing much, because if she liked other schools they would already be on her list, right?</p>
<p>Another possibility is to just leave her list the way it is. If she gets six rejections, she goes to the seventh school. If she gets seven rejections, she lives in our basement next year. :)</p>
<p>Has she looked at all of the "Colleges That Change Lives"? These are matches for a lot of students and they all have many redeeming characteristics.</p>
<p>Then she has the wrong matches and safeties on her list. If you name the reaches that she likes perhaps others could suggest matches and safeties that may be more her flavor.</p>
<p>I agree with 4trees. If she hates her matches and safeties, then she doesn't have matches and safeties. She needs to expand her list to include matches and safeties that she loves. After all, she may have to attend one of those schools.</p>
<p>Definition of a true Safety/Sure Bet School</p>
<p>Your child has an excellent chance of being admitted to (check)
Is a financially feasible option for your family
If admitted, if it was the only school she was admitted to,she woudl be happy to attend (nope)</p>
<p>Do not pass go...</p>
<p>I agree with the others, she has to go back and get more safety and match schools because right now she does not have any.</p>
<p>I agree with the above posters that she needs to rethink her criteria so can find matches and safeties she could be happy at. But I also wonder if part of her present reaction is the fear of lost pride--that is, not getting in to one of the reaches and having to "settle"--not so much that she would not like the schools but that she would not like the idea of going to the schools. That possiblity also needs to be discussed and rethought.</p>
<p>
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Her ACT puts her in the low end of the middle 50% of all the top schools, so thinking "reach" isn't a total pipe dream.
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</p>
<p>I hate to break the news to you, but unless your daughter is hooked in some way -- a recruited athlete or a heavily courted URM -- the lower end of the middle 50% range is a total pipe dream. For an average white (and probably Asian American) kid, I figure 75th percentile for a **match **school and even that 75th percentile number could still be a **reach **depending on the school.</p>
<p>BTW, I think that applying to more **reach **schools on the theory that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while is the worst college application strategy imaginable. I see no point in applying to any reach unless there is a plausible rationale for acceptance. Applying to "wing and a prayer" reaches simply miscalibrates the list and makes generating enthusiasm for realistic matches and safties that much harder.</p>
<p>My daughter only applied to two schools where she didn't have 75th percentile SATS (she was at or above the 50th percentile for both of those). One was her Early Decision school; she was a double legacy at the other. She was 75th percentile or better at all of the other schools on her list. And, overall, her test scores were the weakest part of her application. Her transcript, class rank, ECs, and recommendations all suggested a stronger applicant. She liked several of her matches a lot, finding different attractive qualities about each.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the parents' #1 job in this process is to make sure that there are solid matches and safeties and that some enthusiasm for them is nurtured and maintained throughout the process. Any 17 year old kid can pick out reaches.</p>
<p>Our son only applied to 8 matches and safeties and really liked almost all of them, the exception being our flagship U and one LAC. He has always been a very down to earth person, totally satisfied with second best stuff(no GAP or AF clothes) and unaffected by peer pressure. It was and continues to be his attitude towarad life. Our whole family is the same way and I think it has made us happier people.</p>
<p>See if you can begin instilling this attitude in your daughter.</p>
<p>Would she really rather live in your basement than attend college, even if it isn't one of her sought-after reaches?
I think a change of attitude/view about the whole college search is in order for her. Sit down with her and take a few steps back and help her decide what is really important for her going forward in her life at this point.</p>
<p>While applying to more reach schools might increase the changes of an acceptance from at least one reach school, that can't substitute for having matches and safeties that your D would be happy to attend. She needs to find some, and I'm sure they're out there. WHat is it that she loves about her reaches, or what it is that she doesn't love about her matches and safeties? If we knew what she was looking for, we might be able to make some suggestions.</p>
<p>First of all, she shouldn't apply to any schools that she won't be willing to go to. It's a waste of time and application fees. My son applied to one school just to appease us (he said later). He had no intention of going there, and it wasn't as if we really wanted him to go there either. I'd have rather saved the $60. ;)</p>
<p>I second the others who say to do more research. I know this is a hard process, but it's important to have a solid list. There is simply no point in applying to schools she hates.</p>
<p>cindysphinx--it would help if your daughter has a major/general career direction in mind (maybe she does?). Then you could research schools in this area, and find a match that would work well for her. You might even post her interests/general stats here on CC (if you felt comfortable) -- you are bound to get lots of good advice/suggestions.</p>
<p>The conventional wisdom of C.C. is that you need to focus on safety and match schools and de-emphasize reach schools. On some days I agree with the conventional wisdom but today let me be the dissenter. </p>
<p>About the "reach" schools, I think if your D has researched a school, is at least a little bit competitive for, would really enjoy going to and if you can afford to pay the application fee for, then she should apply. The surest way to not get into a school is to not apply to it.</p>
<p>About the safety schools, if there is just one safety then by definition she is guaranteed admission there and you don't need to add another one to your list. If she had two safeties and she bailed on one of them, that sounds like a good decision- she would have got into both of them and then she would have chosen one anyway. </p>
<p>Finally, I don't think it is so ridiculous to consider the basement as the ultimate safety (the tuition is certainly affordable). If that really does happen, she will have time to think about her priorities and perhaps she will find other schools that better fit her interests.</p>
<p>Having said that, if there is a safety that she has a borderline enthusiasm for, she can always apply anyway. If that is the only school she gets into and if in April she still doesn't want to attend it, then she doesn't have to enroll.</p>
<p>The conventional wisdom of C.C. is that you need to focus on safety and match schools and de-emphasize reach schools. On some days I agree with the conventional wisdom but today let me be the dissenter. </p>
<p>About the "reach" schools, I think if your D has researched a school, is at least a little bit competitive for, would really enjoy going to and if you can afford to pay the application fee for, then she should apply. The surest way to not get into a school is to not apply to it.</p>
<p>About the safety schools, if there is just one safety then by definition she is guaranteed admission there and you don't need to add another one to your list. If she had two safeties and she bailed on one of them, that sounds like a good decision- she would have got into both of them and then she would have chosen one anyway. </p>
<p>Finally, I don't think it is so ridiculous to consider the basement as the ultimate safety (the tuition is certainly affordable). If that really does happen, she will have time to think about her priorities and perhaps she will find other schools that better fit her interests.</p>
<p>Having said that, if there is a safety that she has a borderline enthusiasm for, she can always apply anyway. If that is the only school she gets into and if in April she still doesn't want to attend it, then she doesn't have to enroll.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Interesteddad is right. Most selective colleges only enroll about a third of the students they admit, and the two-thirds they don't enroll are usually concentrated toward the statistical upper end of the pool of applicants they admit. So the 25th percentile of the enrolled class may be more like the 8th or 9th percentile of the admitted class, while representing a much higher percentage of the applicant pool. So those reaches are really reaches.</p></li>
<li><p>What you term the "shotgun" approach might work OK if admissions were truly random. But they're not truly random. Most admissions staffs are looking for very similar qualities in their applicants, and it's not just grades, rank, and test scores. If your child is not really a competitive applicant to School A, the same qualities will tend to make her a noncompetitive applicant to Schools B-F, too. (And vice versa.) There is SOME element of randomness and luck involved, but I believe (without anything like the data to prove it) that the results kids get are much more consistent than we generally acknowledge. The point being: adding more reaches doesn't really make it more likely she will have a chance to attend one.</p></li>
<li><p>There are very few colleges that are unlovable. Most of them, in fact, are consummately lovable. My kids love a college many of their friends shied from in horror; their friends adore colleges my kids turned their noses up at. None of these kids is so different from one another that if you switched them all around they wouldn't fit in at and love their new colleges.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I don't think it's fair to let your child dwell on the comparison between Reach U and Safety College. It's perfectly rational to like Reach U more; what makes it a reach is that lots of people agree. However, taken on its own, Safety College doubtless has a TON of great features and opportunities. And there will always be kids at Safety College who are really taking advantage of what it has to offer and thus getting a great education and loving their lives and college doing it. So much so that they couldn't actually be doing better if they were at Reach U; one student can rarely exhaust all of the opportunities available at even a small, unfamous but decent-quality college.</p>
<p>I think as a parent you want to teach your kid to be that kind of student, whether she winds up at Reach or Safety. By all means, find a safety she likes more, but make certain she's looking at the safeties for what they have to offer, not for how they fall short of some other institution's ideal.</p>
<p>Sigh, it is a problem when kids think that way. In our area, there are a group of schools that are just so popular among the kids here that the admissions standards are a bit steeper for our kids so being in the bottom part of the the 50% range would not bode well at all for admissions. In fact for many of these schools, you had better be in the upper 25% range stats wise if you do not bring something else dramatic to the table. Some of these schools have a lot of alumni, celebrity, athletic, special skills, diversity admissions that can creep above that 25% bottom bracket. Throw in geographics, choice of major, etc, and your chance are not that good for those schools.</p>
<p>I don't deal with the kids, just talk to the parents as friends and acquaintances and a lot of them feel the same way. It is just beyond their realm of thinking to consider a school that they do not already know. And if that school is below what they feel their student should take, their noses go way up in the air. </p>
<p>I always tell such folks that the fun and easy part of college selection is cherry picking the ones right out there. The work and challenge is finding those schools you don't know well. It's easy to want to go to the schools where "everyone" is applying. It's venturing out that is the issue. </p>
<p>I know that our catholic high schools have some stock safeties and matches that the kids know well enough to want. Everyone wants BC and GT, but they still find Fordham, Stonehill, St Joseph, Providence acceptable. Maybe a talk with the GC is in order where he can tell you some of the more popular matches and safeties. </p>
<p>I am helping a friend whose widowed sister is going through this process right now and the same situation is occurring. The talk revolves around all of the selective schools that are reaches for the girl. Then there are the local schools some that would accept walk ins and the no one really wants for the girl. Getting something in the middle that she could like has become a real problem. </p>
<p>As others have stated, the basement may well be the alternative that has to be. The student may just not have her mind set at this time to go away someplace that she does not know. She may need time to acclimate herself for these possiblities. I know that this young lady does not want to consider any school she has not heard of, and she is limited in her knowledge which as a result, limits her choices severely. Especially since she tends to know the more selective schools.</p>
<p>She needs more safety schools (because the reality is that they are probably her "match" schools). Be honest with her and explain to her just how qualified the applicant pool is that she's up against. She needs to find 2 safeties where she would feel comfortable attending. Don't spend any more time on reach schools.</p>