<p>Under no circumstances should you allow her to go back to NYC.
Pace is an OK school, but it’s not worth dragging yourself down from NH to attend.
There are far better schools that are a lot closer and will not have the NY temptation.</p>
<p>This is a New Yorker talking: the city is not for everybody. Some can handle it, others can’t. You know for a fact that your daughter can’t so sending her back would be a HUGE mistake.</p>
<p>Mom876 I am so glad you are going to counseling and that you realize your daughter needs more. She can always take a leave of absence at her school and possibly hold onto her scholarships while she grows up and comes to terms with you.</p>
<p>I am glad Northstarmom has taken the time to post her thoughtful and honest words to you.I am glad you see some truth in her posts.</p>
<p>Reread them for strength when you need.</p>
<p>Good for you NSM.</p>
<p>Op, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I would absolutely pursue counseling for all of you. Bring her home. Don’t drop another cent to finance her lifestyle. In fact, why isn’t she home now?</p>
<p>Funny you mention the military because I was thinking how that might be the way for her to go. I’m a military brat, and my dad always would stay that a stint in the military will shape someone up really quickly.</p>
<p>^ Yes, I was going to say that it’s not that uncommon for girls, especially large groups of them, to get into clubs for free or get free drinks bought for them when they go out or get free food vouchers for going to a particular club. It doesn’t just happen in New York, it happens in cities and towns all over. </p>
<p>Northstarmom has given good advice: I think the major issue here is that if your daughter returns to school, even if it’s just for the week, she is going to be hanging out with the same people that are enabling this kind of behavior. In order to change, she doesn’t just have to change her habits, she has to change her whole social circle, she needs new friends who are more academically oriented. You can’t make those friends for her, but bringing her home for a semester or longer will help disrupt these unhealthy relationships she’s made. If she goes back to Pace, her friends will have moved on a little, and hopefully so will she. </p>
<p>I don’t think the weekend idea is a great one. For one thing, it will probably just encourage more partying during the week (since she won’t be there on the weekends) which will negatively affect her school work. Secondly, how long will it realistically be before she starts trying things like “Moooom, I have to stay here this week, I have a big project due an I need to work on it.” then she stays home and parties. Or “Moooom, I forgot to buy my ticket and the bus was full/I missed my bus and now I can’t come Friday”? Who is buying/paying for these bus tickets? And if she doesn’t get on the bus, are you going to cancel her lease and withdraw her mid-semester? I just see that for a girl who’s willing to lie to her parents in order to spend the summer partying in New York, there are a lot of loopholes in that set up.</p>
<p>Well…this is probably irrelevant, but how many credits did she complete? Pace is one of those schools which only counts the second grade in gpa if you fail and retake a course. So, just make sure she didn’t do this–you can’t tell from the gpa. </p>
<p>Who are the girls your D is living with? I admit I’d be on google trying to find out. Were they students at other colleges staying in nyc for the summer? Or are they kids who are working in nightclubs, etc. ? </p>
<p>My heart goes out to the OP. I’m not sure what she should do. I think NSM makes great points, but I also think her advice is colored by her own experience with her older son who kept partying as long as someone else was supporting him. Sure, it’s fine to tell the D she has to come home and work for the $ to repay her parents. The odds of that actually happening? Slim to none, IMO. I think the OP has that right. </p>
<p>I’m not wildiy enthused about the bus ride every weekend bit, and I find it hard to believe it only takes 4 hours on a Friday/Sunday. I think D will just move the partying to the weeknights. </p>
<p>And what will she do instead if her parents just shut off the spigot? Well, if she’s already up to the “bottle service” level, she may be meeting men you don’t want her to meet. And is the nightclub internship really a lie? Or did she meet some guy who owns or runs a night club who promised a naive young girl a “no pay” internship where she could hang out with the VIP crowd and then lost interest in her? And if she’s not 21 and getting into bottle service areas, she’s probably on a list or more than one list. </p>
<p>(For those who don’t know what bottle service is, the hoi polloi get charged per drink in a night club. There’s often a VIP lounge and there you buy a bottle–at a huge mark up–and pour your own drinks for you and your “friends.” So, in theory, the bartender isn’t serving the underaged. While pretty girls who are out clubbing with their friends are sometimes asked into the VIP lounge --or often just crash it-- the clubs often have “lists” of those who don’t have to wait on a long line with the hoi polloi to get into a crowded club. If you’re “on the list,” the bouncers just let you past the (usually) red rope and let you in. It also avoids having to show your ID at too many clubs. In theory, you’ve been pre-screened. From what I’ve heard–I don’t spend time in clubs–if you are not famous, you will get kicked out of the VIP lounge very quickly if one or more of the VIPs doesn’t “befriend” you.) </p>
<p>Among other things, not every patron can buy a bottle–usually just VIPs. So, the purchaser of the bottle, not the bartender, is pouring your drink. NOT a good idea for a young girl to let a guy do this. </p>
<p>So, here are a few ideas. (1) See if you can talk her into applying for something like Americorps or some other community service type program that will give her a living stipend. i suggest this because it would get her out of NYC but wouldn’t force her to live with her parents. I think this would be the best option. I also think she’s more likely to agree to this than she is to agree to living at home. </p>
<p>(2)This may be an off the wall suggestion, but what if the OP told the D she can only stay in NY if she moves into one of the women’s residences and someone agrees to make spot checks to see if she is still there? If you don’t have an idea of what I’m talking about, read this:[Living</a> in Webster Apartments, a women’s dorm in Chelsea](<a href=“http://www.nypress.com/article-19361-a-room-of-her-own.html]Living”>http://www.nypress.com/article-19361-a-room-of-her-own.html)</p>
<p>If she really WANTS to continue her life style, this isn’t going to work, but if she does have some interest in school, then it might work. I’ll admit I’m not too optimistic, but if it were my D I’d rather try this than just shut off the spigot if option 1 doesn’t work. </p>
<p>Hugs to the OP.</p>
<p>I’d make her work to pay back the money in a given amount of time if she ever wants to go back to NY. And to pay you rent while she’s at it. She’ll be mad, but the harder you are on her, the better off she’ll be. After she cries a lot, and with counseling that you pay for, eventually she’ll realize that she has to give in to get out. Working should give her the stability she needs in life right now. IF she pays you back, or you cut her some slack if she’s been working hard, then let her decide if she wants to spend the rest of her life flipping burgers, or actually study at her university. If she decides to go back, make sure that she stays at a college dorm. Make her get a parttime job and make her pay for everything but tuition. This way, you’ll know she’s messing around with a guy in order to get admission into a club. Where she’ll do more of that. Ask for a minimum 3.5 gpa if she wants to go back next year (if she got a 3.0 partying so much, she could raise it a bit, seeing as she won’t be partying at all… cut her some slack if she’s earned it when the time comes, but ask for this now.) If you feel she’s earned it, slowly start getting more lenient after those 2 years. But still, you know her better than anyone. Just my advice…</p>
<p>Jonri, you are a very wise person. I admire you.</p>
<p>Good Lord, I don’t usually comment on these threads by parents who have done their best and whose children go astray (there but for the Grace of God go I), but I have to ditto everyone who has counseled you to get your pretty daughter out of New York City asap. You have no idea how bad the scene is at these clubs. A long, long way from New Hampshire. A disaster waiting to happen. Counseling is good. Keep up the good work!</p>
<p>"Sure, it’s fine to tell the D she has to come home and work for the $ to repay her parents. The odds of that actually happening? Slim to none, IMO. I think the OP has that right. "</p>
<p>What are the D’s choices? I doubt that she will be able to continue living with her current roommates unless she’s working full time and paying rent and her living expenses. If she’s able to do this, she wouldn’t have the time to live the partying life she’s living now.</p>
<p>Otherwise, where would she go? She’d still need some method of support, and the easiest way of getting that would be to move home. </p>
<p>While she could possibly find a man to support her or she could find some illegal means of support, she could do that even if she were in college. There are college students who support their partying lifestyles by being involved in all sorts of activities that are not things their parents would approve of. Partying can be expensive especially if high priced drugs are involved, and students choosing that kind of lifestyle may choose to augment their parents’ contributions even if their parents are being very generous.</p>
<p>If the D is faced with having to support herself, she may herself find that her partying lifestyle isn’t worth it or if she really doesn’t want to be in college, she may find full time employment that will let her support herself while not being in college. What’s not fair is her expecting her parents to pay for her to party.</p>
<p>NSM, here’s part of what the OP wrote:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So, basically, she woud have to replace the $20,000 per year her parents give her. Option #1–take out a student loan. Since these can’t be discharged in bankruptcy and she’s finished one year with a 3.0, I suspect that she would be able to find a bank that would loan her an additional $20,000 a year. </p>
<p>If we assume that she’d be willing to work part-time during the school year and full time during the summer, the “gap” would probably be about $15,000–and she can get a loan. </p>
<p>Using the proceeds of the loan, she can offer to pay her current roommates a share of the rent. It sounds as if she paid $1,000 a month during the summer. I think that’s definitely “doable” with the loan proceeds. At the very least, she will THINK it’s doable and will probably try it before packing it up and returning to NH. </p>
<p>I think that scenario is a LOT more likely than D returning to NH, living at home, going to therapy (has D admitted she has a problem?) , paying her parents back for the $ she bamboozled them out of, and going to CC for at least a semester. </p>
<p>Did your own son cave in and move back home? No. I don’t think this young woman will either. And reality is that for gay men and young women, there are tempting ways to make $ that your son probably never confronted as options. </p>
<p>I genuinely appreciate your wisdom, NSM. However, in this case, I think you’re wrong. IMO, it is unrealistic to think that if M&D “just say no,” D will come home to NH, go into therapy, go to CC and live with her parents’ restrictions. If this were my own D, I’d accept that and try to find a better solution. Some sort of community service or job that includes housing and gets her out of NYC without having to live with her parents might be a more acceptable alternative to her.</p>
<p>Speaking from experience, I just want to reinforce that it’s a bad idea to let her go back to the NYC area. I was a late bloomer, but midway through my college years I got in with a partying crowd. My parents didn’t really care, but I saw I was headed in a bad direction. </p>
<p>I ended up dropping out of school, a combination of partying and depression issues. We lived in the Hamptons, and I was not one of the privileged or had much money, but I always found a way to drink for free or next to nothing. This was either from local bartenders who would comp the people they liked for a good tip or drugs or sex, employee nights with $1 drinks, or rich older men who liked to buy girls drinks. Then of course, these situations had easy access to drugs. I will say I was not promiscuous, but had I stayed in that lifestyle I could have become less virtuous for sure.</p>
<p>Having grown up with an alcoholic father, I was acutely aware that my drinking was becoming a problem, and that my other behaviors were destructive. I could not stay away from my friends or the scene no matter how hard I tried. So I moved away. Several states away. I knew the only way I could save myself was with a clean break.</p>
<p>I moved in with friends who had known me from before my partying days, and were not partyers. I got a decent job & after a few months my alcohol use had dropped down to an occassional drink, rather than the nightly binges.</p>
<p>And I think that’s what your daughter needs. Good Luck.</p>
<p>Maybe, given what martina said, you could give your daughter the option to go to school in another state? If you have family elsewhere, try checking into areas around there, and if she needs someone, that way she has someone close by that she knows and can trust.</p>
<p>I have never said that cutting the financial cord would make the D come home. I’ve said that if she chooses to stay in NYC, she’d have to work a job more than likely to pay for that.</p>
<p>I doubt that a bank would loan her $20k without a cosigner. Given her irresponibility, her parents shouldn’t cosign.</p>
<p>If the D wants to party at parents expense, she won’t want a big loan.</p>
<p>With my S, my concern was his partying. When he had to start supporting himself, he got a fulltime job and stopped extensive partying.</p>
<p>I know it hurts you to hold her accountable for her actions, you want her to be successful and want to enable that, and she apparently is manipulative in leveraging your love for her and desires for her success into her own selfish gain through lying to you and stealing from you. You haven’t indicated in your posts that she’s come to terms with this, regrets what she did, or has any real inclination to change. Forget the idea that she’d go to college in NYC during the week and commute home 4 hours every weekend. It simply isn’t going to happen and if you think about it objectively you’ll know that. Even if she did it she’d hardly be getting the college experience she should be if she vacates every weekend. </p>
<p>I don’t know what her major is but unless she’s taking a light load and easy classes it seems that it’d be difficult to maintain a decent GPA even if she’s smart unless that college just gives away good grades. Getting a decent grade with a course load of 3 easy humanities courses is vastly different than getting a decent grade with 4 classes of heavy engineering/math/science courses. There are students who work far harder in the latter to sometimes achieve a lower GPA than the former, even if they’re actually smarter students. I’m saying this only to point out that the GPA can be a misleading metric of success and work invested. Some partiers purposely arrange to have a very light load of easy classes so they can free up more time for partying and sleeping rather than doing actual school work. In addition to monitoring her GPA you should also monitor her actual course load and course types (in this situation). </p>
<p>Think about this from another angle besides your hurt and disappointment - she’s leading a physically dangerous lifestyle if she’s getting drunk and partying every day. She’s subject to alcohol poisoning, accidents (even walking across a street drunk), doing things with guys she wouldn’t otherwise do, placing herself in very vulnerable situations. You need to think about this health factor and the physical well being of your D. </p>
<p>If my kid did what yours did there’s no way I’d enable it further by continuing to subsidize her partying, lying, and theft. It’s time she’s removed from that situation and hopefully use the experience as a learning experience and mature. Don’t fall for the mental blackmail that ‘she might run away’, ‘she might not be my friend anymore’ (and is she really demonstrating that anyway with her behavior?), ‘she might not be the successful person I want her to be’, etc. - that’s a trap many parents fall into and kids take advantage of to manipulate.</p>
<p>Hi Mom876 … I’m sorry you are going through this.</p>
<p>If this were my daughter I would be very concerned … however I also believe I would not act as harsh as many posters are proposing … I liked Joni’s ideas trying to get a handle on the situation without being too combative. I, like a large percentage of my friends were pretty immature when they started college and messed up for awhile … no drinking and drugs but also no classes and grades … and, along with the majority of my friends who screwed up, came out the other side fine. You know your daughter and the situation better than any of us … from from limited view if this were my daughter I’d be leaning to something like this. Finding out (from the school not yoru daughter) if the 3.0 is legit with a legit course load … if it is then while your daughter certainly partied more than you would have liked she certainly was not a total lush (and some kids do go to college and totally lose it). If she got a legit 3.0 with a legit course load I’d try to find a way to get handle of the situation and mitigate the consequences of the lying. For continued support at school I’d require (not request) that my daughter give me permission to see her academic record … legally the school can not share this info with you unless she OKs it). The behavior this summer was not Ok by any means but I’m not a big fan on pulling the plug on school immediately … how about she returns to school on campus in a dorm and has a campus job to pay back the $3000. I have a hard time with what to me are harsh responses when kids lie about doing things they know their parents do not approve of … they are in a no win situation … if they tell the truth their parents are *<strong><em>ed at them and if they lie their parents are *</em></strong>ed at them … for my kids I try to give them a path to redemption that also addresses the errors in the past (and not requiring them to be more perfect than their Mom or I was as a kid). This situation may be worth a call to the head of student life for suggestions of how to structure a return to school so it works. Good luck!</p>
<p>NSM, Since the bankruptcy law was changed, banks are MORE than willing to give STUDENT loans to those over 18 without a co-signer as long as they are US citizens. See for example [Private</a> Student Loans from CHASE bank - Chase Select Loan for College](<a href=“http://www.chasecollegeloan.com/psearch.asp?loan=cslchaseselect&ref=ECPDGOOG080001&lpt=q1]Private”>http://www.chasecollegeloan.com/psearch.asp?loan=cslchaseselect&ref=ECPDGOOG080001&lpt=q1)</p>
<p>A co-signer just gets you a lower interest rate–one isn’t required.</p>
<p>And, my own guess is that while the D would PREFER to party on her parents’ $, if she can’t get that, she WILL take out a big loan so she can continue to party --or in her mind, stay in school in the City.</p>
<p>As is obvious from the posts above, I disagree with the approach most of the parents here are advocating. While I think it would be very desirable for the D to get out of NYC–though I love it here myself and think it’s a great place for young people with their heads screwed on straight–I do not think M&D have any power whatsoever to make that happen. And I really think several posters are missing that essential point. She’s over 18; she doesn’t have to have her parents’ permission to do anything. ALL they can do in this situation is stop financing her education OR try to use the leverage of doing so to alter the circumstances in which she is living. </p>
<p>I don’t think that if M&D pull the financial support that D will EITHER (1) go to work full time and live a less dangerous life style or (2) return to NH, live at home, go to CC and attend therapy with her parents.</p>
<p>I think that the odds are MUCh higher than she will either (1) take out loans and continue at Pace, living as she thinks fit or (b) drop out of school and work part time while continuing her present life style and perhaps being more open to some unsavory options. </p>
<p>So, I vote for trying to find some compromise here. You can say that I’m too easily manipulated but I wouldn’t push my own D out the door at this point. I’d try to come up with some other plan–one that D would accept. That may not be possible and I admit that. But anyone who thinks that her parents can just demand that she leave NYC and return home isn’t being realisitc, IMO. </p>
<p>If the D will return to NH and see a therapist with her parents–which is possible if she thinks there’s still a chance of getting $ for college from them–than perhaps the therapist can help this family come up with a compromise. </p>
<p>There’s nothing in the OP’s post which suggests that the D herself has any regret or remorse for what she’s done to her parents and/or that she WANTS to change her present life style. So, she may not be willing to consider a compromise. </p>
<p>So, this is what I see as the OP’s choice. She and her H can say “no more,” pull the financial support and let the chips fall where they may. In doing this, I think she should recognize that young women who face eviction or an empty refrigerator may be more likely to do things that those who aren’t worried about the necessities of life might not do. That doesn’t answer the question of whether the parents should pull the financial support; it just means recognizing that in the short run, it may make the situation worse.</p>
<p>Again, hugs to the OP. You’re in a tough situation. Perhaps though the worst of it was just a “summer thing” and when she does have the structure of classes and a part-time job, her life style is a bit better, even if not ideal.</p>
<p>The lifestyle the OP suggested in her first post tells me a lot about what DD is likely to do. Bottle service? An apartment with non students? This is a not uncommon lifestyle for some NYC college students who become entangled with older men with money. Sounds like she’s aware of the possibilities and I’d doubt she’s heading back to NH.</p>
<p>It might get worse before it gets better, but a mom working two jobs so that her lying dd can party it up in the city is not the best path either. I never said it would be easy, but for dd to change her behavior she’s going to have to feel some consequences of her actions. And if she’s not remorseful for the way she’s treated her parents perhaps she’ll be persuaded to give it some more thought once the gravy train ends.</p>
<p>OP, others have asked, but I haven’t seen an answer: Do you know for sure she’s maintaining a 3.0?</p>
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<p>I was sort of wondering that. There is one type of young person who would enjoy a wilder life for a while but would be sort of relieved when she “got caught.” But then there are others who are having a darned good time and have no desire to leave the lifestyle. </p>
<p>I have no idea if there is a substance abuse problem, or if the D is just having great (albeit possibly dangerous) fun on her parent’s dime. Is therapy really available for the condition of “partying too much and disappointing your parents”? This is a horrible horrible example, but look at the cast of Jersey Shore. From what I’ve read and from the 10 minutes of the show that I’ve seen, they sleep, drink, argue, tan, fight, workout, have sex (and I think that laundry is in there, too.) From what I’ve read, it seems like that’s about all those particular young people were doing before they were cast in the show. Although I doubt that those folks behave in the way any CC parent would want, do they need counseling? Do they want to change their ways?</p>