<p>I see that Davidson has a lower minority percentage than comparably selective liberal arts colleges. As a parent with a junior son starting his college selection process, diversity is at the top of our list.....but Davidson's institutional commitment to diversity concerns me.</p>
<p>Any students or other insiders out there who can comment with their perspectives?</p>
<p>I am a junior at Davidson, and we have spoken before. There was a very long discussion on this topic last year and you might search the archive to find it, it was exhaustive in it's length. It was started by interesteddad who was beside himself for letting his daughter consider the school. Having said that, Davidson is great school, top of the line academics, wonderful professors, great location, fantastic students. But, if "Diversity" is at the TOP of your list(over education, academics, etc..), then I would suggest that your son would be happier somewhere else, Davidson is not a place where they seek "diversity for the sake of diversity", the focus is on a rigorous education and having the academic background to complete it. I am from Texas, as I believe you are, and I find more diversity here than I did in Texas, which was either anglo or hispanic, and not much else, at least in San Antonio.</p>
<p>You might also speak directly to the admissions office to get a sense firsthand of what its attitude is toward diversity in particular and excellence in general. My guess is that you will find it quite different (in a very postitiveway) from what interesteddad may perceive and present on CC, which does sometimes seem to be filtered through experiences he had growing up in the south a generation ago.</p>
<p>thanks hubbell & mattmom.....I was unaware of that raging debate previously before I started asking about diversity, but certainly now realize how much heat was generated. I was originally concerned w/ Davidson merely by the numbers before I learned of i-dad's debate (I'll look for that thread)....so, frankly, I was just surprised that Davidson had noticably lower minority numbers relative to the other colleges in its class. Now I'm trying to gauge why & what that means to student life and the educational experience at Davidson.</p>
<p>We are actually from Baltimore, & S's private school class is >15% African American (& the class is very cohesive), hence going to a college w/ 6% Af Am (Davidson) seems like a big change, with probably some "reverse" culture shock. No, diversity is not #1, but its important, & S has expressed interest in Davidson, one of the few he's really sought out on his own thus far. I think he'll have to sift this out himself with some visits, and as Mattmom suggests, some more queries to admissions to gauge the school's "institutional commitment" may be enlightening.</p>
<p>Would of course appreciate any other perspectives.</p>
<p>sorry, I must have you and curmudgeon confused a little. I think that if you look at the totality of black students who have the educational background and stats to flourish at Davidson-it does reasonably well in attracting them, not that far off form the elite northeast LAC's. There is a dearth of asian students, but as I said in another thread, a conservative, Southern school without the prestige name associated with AWS, just doesn't garner much interest from them, you can not accept them if they do not apply and if theydo apply get accepted, they are often accepted by Duke or another 'more prestigious' school-and elect to go there. I have talked to a number of asian students about this-it is a mind-set, to some degree. "You can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink". By this time, you are well aware of the facts, Davidson is at the top of the 'entitlement index', preppy index and many other measures that basically say that Davidson if full of affluent, white kids from privileged backgrounds who attebnded private schools and are professionally oriented. I do not see that changing anytime soon-as it is part of the character of the school, and if it changed too much-so would its primary customer base-affluent, professional southern families. you either know this and accept it, or don't-there are many choices out there. But, I have loved every minute I have been here, and I can't believe the education I have received. If I did not have the chance to meet an eskimo, I may at another time or place in my life, but I can not dwell on it, it's not why I went to college.</p>
<p>papachicken,</p>
<pre><code> I couldn't find the original thread on diversity, but you might find this one of interest from the parents forum in Dec. 2004:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=20583&highlight=davidson+diversity
</code></pre>
<p>Diversity is probably Davidson's weakest department. Numbers wise, I know its pretty bad. However, I wouldn't say my experience has been lacking so far this year in ethnic diversity. After all, 35% of the kids on my freshman hall are non white - and one raised abroad. But i think Hubble hit the target most accuratly - its almost sickening how almost everyone at Davidson is there because they want to further their career. The amount of kids who pay more attention to the grade they recieve then to whether they are interested in the subject is staggering... kids retaking classes they took in high school for the grade disgusts me but it happens too much here. Also, something like 3/4 of the Freshman class have private meetings with Career Services in their first year. The student body certaintly is proffessionally minded and their previous backgrounds follow suit - even atleast 1/2 (my estimate) of those kids who would count towards the diversity statistics attended prestegous private or otherwise top notch high schools. </p>
<p>In sum, Davidson is a wonderful college in many regards - at times I have truly believed it to be the best college in the country - but if diversity is a top 5 decision making criteria, be careful, because there may be enough but you have to visit and see for yourself. Another area to be careful about is the taint that proffessional aspirations (that are characteristic of Davidson students) puts on academics and perhaps even social life.</p>
<p>As a parent I woud have to say that a preprofessional outlook can be quite refreshing. There is something to be said for having kids who are aware that they will be earning their livings at some point. I do not think that having such aspirations and having intellectual curiosity or a social conscience are mutually exclusive and I am little tired seeing the term used disparagingly on CC. I also think Davidson's pass/fail option (one course a semester after freshman year, one course for frsehman year) help give students a chance to pursue courses of interest to them without fear that they will lower their GPA when they explore something new.</p>
<p>Yes, of course we all came here in large part because of the future opportunities we expect to gain from graduating from here. However, in real life the mere fact that we are graded and such an emphasis on grades exists here, makes life unhealthy and not as fulfilling as it otherwise could be. Ironically enough pass fail is not used as it is meant to be by your post, but as a means for raising one's gpa. I just came back from a Commons discusion where a kid insisted he wouldn't take a class he thought was fastinating even though he had the possibility of using a pass fail, because it meant he couldn't use it for something else that may arise (he summed it up by - why take a hard class when you could take an easy one?) and acknowledged that the proffessor, while being a perfect proffessor, was a hard grader. In the same conversaton another kid insisted he would take Calculus 1 even though he has taken the equivalent of Calculus 1 and the equivalent of Calculus 2 in high school - for the easy grade. So Intellectual curiosity is being stomped out. It's unhealthy because kids are not sleeping at night so as to do well. It's also unhealthy because we lack the full amount of social interactions we could otherwise enjoy if the emphasis was on learning and not on grades. This is an environment where one can not afford to learn by making mistakes.
You may say then, that my argument isn't about the proffessional ambitions of students, but about grades in general. This is a fair case - I only contend that in a forum thread about diversity, the appaling lack of diversity in social background (So many of us come from elite high schools (private or public, nevertheless the top tier), raised by parents that held us to a high standard, and we all feel expectations from our peers, parents, and institution to harbor proffessional ambitions bordering on the unrealistic) should be mentioned to those who list diversity as a top concern. Everyone can chose for themselves if they want to go to a school where one must harbor proffessional ambitions requiring the highest degree in the field or if they want to go to a school where going on to get the highest degree is a legitamit option but it is realized that at the same time it is not for everybody.
I think what I am trying to say to those interested in Davidson is that the vast majority of Davidson students are on career paths to the highest levels of employment in our society and if this isn't for you, tread carefully before coming here, because once here, there is no real rival ideology to escape to on campus. Davidson shouldn't neccesarily try to change the proffessional aspirations bt, it is good for the school to have motivated kids. Students in the application proccess on the other hand, should know what they are getting themselves into. Maybe Hubble is better at describing more precisly the other elements, (ethnicity and economics, though I refuse to rank these as lacking in diversity over the proffessional feel) that when combined with the proffessional feel can really make Davidson a place where students in general are remarkably simmilar to one another. Finally, I have to issue he disclaimer, diversity is probably Davidson's weak suit, everything else in my opinion are things to love and cherish.</p>
<p>can anyone speak to other types of diversity at Davidson, not just racial. Is there religious diversity? Economic diversity? Geographic diversity?</p>
<p>I think that above we have been hinting that economic diversity is a small problem at Davidson. Here however, it is not so clear if you look at sheer numbers you will see one side of the story that has Davidson students as one of the richer student bodys in the country, on the other hand I don't think kids flaunt their wealth excessivly and there certaintly are a lot of kids who do experience economic hardship. Plenty of kids look the part of wealthy because its kindof the Davidson thing to do, but then when you have one of those 2 a.m. hall discussions that only the best of halls can have, you realize many kids have rough financial situations at Davidson.
I would say on average Davidson students are rich (this is not to say they come from rich families, but to say that compared to your average college student they have significantly less financial worries) but there is a diversity to this, the distribution of wealth includes outliers on both sides of the mean if you like a statistical description.
Religous diversity: Yes and no. It exists but to the extent to give a student a completly full and vibrant view of all faiths, no way. Davidson students tend to follow some branch of Christianity, certaintly other faiths exist. The promising thing here in my opinion is that regardless of faith, Davidson students do seem to care about religion and this shows how well rounded the student body is. Just FYI, davidson was founded by Presbetarians so... we have our share of presbetarians something like 10-15 % or however you spell it.
Geographic: Obviously its not perfectly spread out between each of the fifty states and 100+ countries. Each part of the country is strongly represented though, of course led by the south and in particular, NC. Don't worry about the school feeling too southern, it is of course southern, but only to a degree that anybody regardless of where they came from will feel comfortable with it. Probably the highlite is that we have atleast 40 if not 50 other coutnries represented at Davidson and there is generally two or three representitives from each of those countries so I really feel like davidson students get a good level of intereaction with students not raised in the United States.<br>
I feel I need to stress that Davidson very well may be the best all around - small liberal arts college in the country. I hope by asking about diversity you understand enough about Davidson to understand that the close interaction with proffessors, strong academics, strong sports teams, nice people! and strong honor code are unmatched by any to my knowledge.</p>
<p>orangelights hit it right; I was trying to resist the old jokes about Davidson so as not to feed the stereotype; eg: religious diversity? Yes, I have met people from every protestant denomination-methodists, prebyterians, episcopalians and baptists abound; economic diversity? yes, every stratum from the upper middle class to the wealthy is well represented, etc...; but, frankly, the same could be said of almost every private LAC in the country except a few-and none of them are without their own set of problems. My best friend from high school transferred out of Swarthmore after just one semester, he couldn't stand the place. But if you came here, you would realize it is just full of very nice kids trying to avail themselves of one of the finest educations offered in the country, and there is nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>So what if you were one of the few minorities (racial and economic) at the school? Would the wealth of your peers make you feel self-conscious?</p>
<p>As wealth is conerned, I think our imaginary student shouldn't feel too self conscious, I can speak from a litttle personal and shared experience here. On the minorities front, our imaginary student might feel self conscious, I don't really know, what i do know is that some minorities are perfectly happy here, and others are happy and but wish there was more diversity. If you want more opinions, I think that Davidson's extremely high retention rate speaks highly of everyone's experience.
I wish I could be more helpful, I think you would need to visit campus to reallly see for yourself, it is the next four years of your life, I am so glad I visited Davidson because it was the deciding factor for me to come here. I can also understand how expensive that might be. Note that in this year's incoming class only one person hadn't seen campus before orientation, so it is really an important thing to do esp. if Davidson is your # 1 you should plan a trip between when you will know if you are in and when you have to send in the deoposit, (typically within a month after you get the decision.) </p>
<p>good luck,
Orangelights</p>
<p>I originally posted this in my trip report, but I thought I would repeat it here:</p>
<p>newest numbers on diversity </p>
<hr>
<p>I found some more data on the Davidson web, which helps me put their diversity progress in context. And it appears there has been some progress.</p>
<p>I hadnt noticed the new 05-06 CDS until this morning; the previous 03-04 version had been up on the site for some time without posting the 04-05 (which I still cannot find) or the latest 05-06. Also, the institutional research page has been drastically updated since I last looked a month or 2 ago, with much more information (thank you Ms. LeFauve, Director of Planning and Institutional Research.)</p>
<p>Based on section B2 of the 03-04 CDS, the incoming class (class of 07) had a minority share of 12.0%, counting Black, native American, Asian & Hispanic categories. The degree-seeking student body had a minority share by this count of 11.1%, and by calculation, the classes of 04, 05, + 06 together had a share of 10.8%. Skipping two years to the 05-06 CDS, the incoming class of 09 this fall had a minority share of 14.1%, an entire student body share of 12.8%, and a combined class of 06, 07, + 08 of 12.2%. </p>
<p>This is steady progress, although there has been no pomp & circumstance celebration of this movement to my looking, but that may go along with the genteel approach.</p>
<p>By my measure then, Davidson has added about 1% to the minority population to each new incoming class in the last few years.</p>
<p>For a quick & somewhat dirty comparison, Williams (which conveniently provides similar historic stats on minority composition, <a href="http://www.williams.edu/admission/life_diversity.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admission/life_diversity.php</a>) went from about a 22-23% minority share (by their measure, not sure if its the same as above) to their current ~29% in the span of 3 years between the classes of 04 and 07, or roughly 2% increase per year per class. As Davidson is starting at a lower point, the relative growth is about the same....just that Davidson is a decade or 2 behind a Williams (interesteddad, didnt you mention this phenomenon a while back?)</p>
<p>So, again by my rough measure & at this pace (assuming there does exist this unpronounced diversity effort), Davidson will get into the mid 20%s in 6 to 8 years. Projecting out, a junior starting in a year & one half may have a class minority population pushing 16 or 17% (MUCH better than the numbers now reported in USNews...12%), with an incoming freshman class of the low 20%s during their senior year. Of course, Ill be watching to see that this highly simplified model comes true!</p>
<p>BTW, the latest Davidson IR data (<a href="http://www2.davidson.edu/administra...ir_factfile.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www2.davidson.edu/administra...ir_factfile.asp</a>) may also begin to placate a criticism of the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education surveys, which called out Davidson for not reporting enrollment data and minority faculty info. Open & honest reporting is a good thing.</p>
<p>link to IR site above was not active. here it is:
<a href="http://www2.davidson.edu/administration/adm/ir/ir_factfile.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www2.davidson.edu/administration/adm/ir/ir_factfile.asp</a></p>
<p>I have learned much in the last month or two, so thank you all. Mattmom, I hope you appreciate my attempt below to better articulate my diversity meter as you so coined, with my latest learning.</p>
<p>After hearing you and others, as well as visiting Davidson, I am 100% convinced that Davidson is committed to making diversity work, and that commitment is currently working for the student community now at Davidson. I also now have a deeper appreciation for Davidsons strive for excellence in all areas, an example as voiced by Davidson leaders...best in academics, best in athletics.</p>
<p>Attendant with Davidsons excellence, I have high expectations in all categories of institutional achievement, and I would expect Davidson to strive for best in class by all measures relative to their peer group. Conveniently, Davidsons IR site lists peer institutions (<a href="http://www2.davidson.edu/administration/adm/ir/ir_peers.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www2.davidson.edu/administration/adm/ir/ir_peers.asp</a>) with which I can compare & contrast how those peers have made institutional commitments to diversity. </p>
<p>I am not looking at commitment for making diversity work with the culture of the school; I now firmly believe Davidson is on the mark here. I am looking at what Ill call the next stage, making that commitment known to the outside community, especially to people like me poised to make a $160,000 investment. I have noticed that highly esteemed institutions in general do make their intensions known, and IMO that is a good thing. I could wax on about why, but lets just say that I see great organizational benefits to an open-book policy where goals are made known to stakeholders and results are openly displayed.</p>
<p>With regard to diversity bench-marking, I observe two means with which colleges communicate with their outside stakeholders:
1. posting admissions and enrollment data with sufficient detail to enable someone to assess minority inclusion for a given time period (results openly displayed evidence.)
2. posting data analyses specific to minority trending in enrollment (further evidence of results displaying.)
3. conspicuous posting of minority recruitment efforts or goals, especially visible to the applying community (goals made known evidence.)</p>
<p>The most recent Common Data Set (CDS) being available to the public satisfies the first criterion, with data on minority group enrollment (CDS section B) for incoming freshmen and undergraduate student body, for the most recent fall enrollment. Trend analysis satisfying the second criterion is delivered in many forms and web locations (e.g., institutional research web site, admissions web site, or factbook), but qualities of good analyses always include specific tables or figures tracking various minority categories, with multiple years (i.e., >3 or 4) of data. Likewise, conspicuous display of minority recruiting efforts or goals (third criterion) comes in many forms, but the most-communicative institutions typically mention, for instance, a connection to Questbridge or have a statement of minority recruitment commitment in the admissions web page.</p>
<p>Note that I spent limited time doing this subjective and not-so-scientific survey.</p>
<p>Here is how Davidsons peer institutions stacked up on satisfying these three criteria (Y or N for yes or no):</p>
<p>Category
1 / 2 / 3 / COLLEGE
Y / Y / N / Bates
Y / N / Y / Bowdoin
Y / N / Y / Carleton
N / N / N / Claremont M
N / N / Y / Colgate
Y / Y / N / Furman
Y / N / N / Grinnel
Y / Y / Y / Hamilton
Y / Y / N / Haverford
Y / N / Y / Middlebury
Y / Y / N / Oberlin
Y / N / N / Rhodes
N / N / N / Sewanee
Y / Y / Y / Swarthmore
N / Y / N / Vassar
Y / Y / N / W&L
N / N / Y / Wesleyan
Y / Y / Y / Williams</p>
<p>So, the best by this yardstick have yeses in all categories, namely Hamilton, Swarthmore, & Williams (note, Swarthmore & Williams are especially prolific in their diversity commitment displays.) On the other end, Claremont & Sewanee stick out as the least communicative of the peer institutions. One could argue about the importance of each category, but my opinion is that displaying minority trends and demonstrating a recruitment commitment are more important in communicating commitment with outside constituencies than providing base data for the recent year (i.e., the CDS).</p>
<p>With Davidsons recent updating of their IR web site information, the latest CDS is now available, and one of the posted FactFile reports specifically tracks minority enrollment trends. Hence, both criteria 1 and 2 are satisfied. However, I was unable to find any conspicuous statement of recruiting efforts or goals. So, by the yardstick above, Davidson would score Y-Y-N. (BTW, if I had done this a month or two ago, the score would have been N-N-N, alongside Claremont & Sewanee.)</p>
<p>So the above is a long-winded way to conclude that IMHO, Davidson still has some room to excel if being best in class in the diversity category is important to them. Conspicuous display of Davidsons minority recruitment goals or means/progress of attaining those goals would satisfy being best in class. There is undoubtedly much more to this story, possibly related to the apparent turnover of admissions leadership in recent years or the re-establishment of stronger IR, I just dont know. Davidson most definitely has a different heritage with different culture than many other peer institutions. Nevertheless, being best in class as a national force still means to me that Davidson should make their diversity commitment known, as so many other fine institutions have done.</p>
<p>are students are davidson religious?</p>
<p>Go to Stanford -- an amazingly diverse group of motivated and talented students. Davidson can only aspire to that kind of mix of students.</p>
<p>And many students can only aspire to Davidson:)</p>
<p>Seriously, this is not a contest. There are a lot of truly excellent schools out there. Stanford is one of them; Davidson is another. Each is one among many. No need to be competitive just because admission is.</p>