<p>Actually, I have been worried about the repercussions for the other members of the team project. One of my sons once had a very bad experience with a team member who didn’t show for the class presentation–he had been a flake for the entire project as well. He, too, had overslept on the day of the presentation…for a 10:00 class. The class syllabus made it clear that the whole team would receive the same grade. My son and the other two team members had tried to reach him since 8 am to do a run through (he “couldn’t make it…” either of the previous few nights either)…The professor would not let them present without their whole team present, and they all received a zero on the project (20% of the class grade).</p>
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<p>OP should clarify whether (a) failing or dropping the course could result in delayed graduation or loss of scholarships, and (b) if the parents and student have any previous agreement about the responsibility for costs of any additional semesters not planned beforehand or loss of scholarships.</p>
<p>If (a) is true and (b) is false, then the parents and student need to clarify the responsibility for costs of any additional semesters not planned beforehand or loss of scholarships. Otherwise, it is purely the student’s problem and responsibility to deal with.</p>
<p>^^Wow, that seems really harsh. And I can only imagine the conversation that occurred when your S and his other group members were able to confront the no-show guy.</p>
<p>My S’s roommate slept thru a final presentation last semester. He received a zero and his partner was docked a certain percentage when she was unable to speak to his part (requirement was both students be knowledgeable about the entire subject not just their part).</p>
<p>^^^
That is awful!!!</p>
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<p>I agree that she made a bad decision to go out partying the night before. A more responsible thing would have been to make sure that she was well-rested (so in bed by a decent hour). Unless she had some issue like my son where the alarm was muffled by her comforter, it’s like that she went to bed far too late or drank too much which interfered with her ability to wake up with either alarm.</p>
<p>.“The professor would not let them present without their whole team present, and they all received a zero on the project (20% of the class grade).”</p>
<p>Wow that is really harsh. Not sure I can see the professors point of view. I mean how do the other 2 who were perfectly prepared to present, control the actions of an irresponsible 3rd team member? I think I would have suggested my child appeal that one to the powers that be. </p>
<p>^^^ That professor shouldn’t get paid unless his course has perfect attendance if he thinks students should have total control over their team members</p>
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<p>The common reasoning I’ve heard from business major friends and a few of their Profs is that in the professional world, team members are expected to hold each other accountable and shouldn’t be running to the supervisor/senior management to settle disputes/issues between team members like a bunch of children.</p>
<p>As sympathetic as I tend to be towards the Prof’s perspective and feeling students don’t take enough responsibility for their part in many situations, this is one instance where I’d side with the student and feel the Prof is being daft. Especially considering the Profs’ reasoning doesn’t hold in the real world IME. </p>
<p>IME, we team members were EXPECTED to bring up issues we’re having with each other with our supervisors, especially if they are serious ones like flaky/slacking team members whose actions are delaying/holding up team productivity and they weren’t responsive to pressure from fellow colleagues. </p>
<p>This is critical in an professional environment where one member’s flakiness/slacking means other team members and other groups working with us cannot perform their duties very well/at all. </p>
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This is why my kids dreaded group projects all through school. Yikes - getting a zero on an important project because someone else didn’t show up? Of course people in the real world hold their colleagues accountable. But in the real world, people miss planes or get the flu or have family members in hospitals, and have to miss presentations at work - at which time the colleagues pick up the slack and soldier on, or the supervisor recognizes that the presentation will have to take place at another time. Or maybe the team loses the contract, but I doubt that the entire team would be fired because one person screwed up. I think the prof is being completely unfair to the other students. If one of them were my child, I’d strongly advise them to contact the academic dean.</p>
<p>In the real world, if someone on the team screwed up or not pull his/her weight, that person would be reprimanded, not the entire team. Most of the time it would be very apparent who screwed up.</p>
<p>I will say all of us were pretty upset with the situation my son was in. It was in an advanced foreign language class and the presentation was supposed to be done entirely in Spanish. It was some kind of foreign language for business class so I think it was some kind of marketing pitch/business presentation where some team members were supposed to be doing a business pitch to a business team. So maybe the professor felt that the entire team was necessary to achieve what was wanted in the assignment.</p>
<p>My son came out of the class with a B+ so he wasn’t too badly harmed–he made sure he got every other point he possibly could.</p>
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<p>In the business world, people have a little more control. They can “shun” co-workers who don’t pull their own weight, and people realize that so they mostly behave. At school, a lazy student just moves on to the next class w/ no repercussions from the other grade-injured students. </p>
<p>"“It was in an advanced foreign language class and the presentation was supposed to be done entirely in Spanish. It was some kind of foreign language for business class so I think it was some kind of marketing pitch/business presentation where some team members were supposed to be doing a business pitch to a business team. So maybe the professor felt that the entire team was necessary to achieve what was wanted in the assignment.”"</p>
<p>Was the prof foreign-born? If so, that may be part of the reason. Some (not all) of the foreign-born profs are coming from cultures where education is a bit different.</p>
<p>I still laugh when I remember one that older son had for math. If he asked a question and a student answered incoreectly, he’d say (in heavy middle-eastern accent), “I’ll give you a minute to realize how wrong you are.” </p>
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<p>And if shunning doesn’t work, my experience has been that supervisors want team members to tell them who the screwups are so they could be held accountable/terminated at their discretion. </p>
<p>A reason why I feel Profs holding such an attitude justifying punishing an entire team of students for the screwups of one are daft. </p>
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<p>Seems like this teacher is of the mind that allowing the student to figure out where and how he/she went wrong in his/her reasoning/answer for him/herself first before providing the correct answer to the class is part of the learning process. </p>
<p>“The professor would not let them present without their whole team present, and they all received a zero on the project (20% of the class grade).”</p>
<p>Something akin to this happened to me during my first year of law school. My partner didn’t do her half of our brief, which I discovered the night before it was due. She left town. I was up all night slopping together an approximation of her half the night before it was due, which had repercussions for other responsibilities of mine. It was a required pass/fail course. I was beyond enraged that she did that to me and that she passed the class – honestly, I still don’t like thinking about it. The teacher was extremely sympathetic to me, and more or less said that he had to pass everyone (wish I’d known that).</p>
<p>Actually, in real life there are sometimes very serious consequences when a team member fails to pull their weight or makes a serious error. Business contracts are lost, missions fail, projects are aborted, patients die. Of course that’s typically more than merely a matter of showing up on an appointed day – but an easy example from my law career is what happens to a case when a critical witness fails to show up in court. So of course I knew as a lawyer that part of my job was making sure that person showed up. </p>
<p>In the real world, you don’t always have do-overs, nor does one’s boss or supervisor necessarily have the power to forgive a transgression.</p>
<p>I would agree that that it’s harsh for everyone on a team for a school project to be failed based on the failure of one – but I think one lesson to be learned is that other team members need to be more proactive. My son had a problem with a partner on a project in a grad school class last year – it was one project that was intended to take the full semester. He was on a 3-person team, but one of the students dropped the course. Then he had a lot of problems with his remaining partner, who was nice person but seemed to have serious time-management issues, as well as difficulty producing acceptable quality work. My son did go to the professor to discuss his concerns. He felt badly that he had to do that – but he realized that it was better to be proactive and let the prof know there was an issue, rather than be in the situation of having to offer up excuses later on. There was some resolution in the end – the prof. wanted my son to continue to try to work with the partner, and my son at least was better able to anticipate the areas where he would have to pick up the slack - but the point is, sometimes life means that a person has to step up to the plate and do more than their fair share. It’s a drag when that happens – in the real world a lot of work assignments involve critical and inflexible deadlines – not situations that can be shrugged off and forgiven. </p>
<p>Wonder what happened to the OP’s daughter?</p>
<p>Finally a follow up on my D’s missed presentation. D was honest with professor, who thanked her for that; will receive a “0” for the project, but still has a “B” in class, & apologized to her group partner. Her relief through just a text message was apparent, as she thought she had failed. Just to set the record straight, her call to me was NOT “help me out”, but rather feeling so angry and remorseful that she “blew it” (in her words). Being that she is OOS, I want her to feel that she can call me anytime day or night to discuss, cry, or rant about something that is on her mind. If she asks for advice, I give it; otherwise just a listening ear is all that is usually needed. Thank you again for all your comments and perspective on the issue.</p>
<p>Her problem, she dealt with it, and it is not likely to cause extra cost to you (failing and needing an extra semester to make up or catch up).</p>
<p>But perhaps you should make sure that you and she have a clear understanding about the responsibility for the extra cost if something happens that does end up requiring an unplanned extra semester.</p>
<p>Lucky… what happens to her partner’s grade? Hopefully she learned a lesson… for many people only once is all it takes. If something like this happens again, though, that could be a sign of a bigger problem. Here’s hoping it was a lesson learned, though.</p>
<p>I’m glad it worked out with a light slap on the wrist. Hope she aces all the rest of the assignments for the semester!</p>