Dealing smartly with asset-based EFC

The other, and bigger (IMO), problem is that we are nine years into a bull market. Ideally you want to make a Roth conversion when the market is low, not high, so that post-conversion you have better odds of capturing capital appreciation, as opposed to losses.

That limit doesn’t apply to Roth conversions, which can be as large as you like, as long as you can afford the taxes (ideally with separate funds). The issue is, rather, whether it makes sense to do a Roth conversion so late into a bull market. I wouldn’t.

@keiekei

I was not talking about Roth conversations.

Someone asked how much one could contribute to a TSA ot IRA pretax.

I would suggest this original poster see his accountant and financial planner to know the full implications financially for all of his proposed options. He may find that none are particularly good ones.

@jsb2000 I honestly think you should speak to a fee based financial planner who has experience with financial aid. Honestly based on your posts, I believe you are very far from being able to pay for that type of education for your children. Maybe you are very young so taking out a HELOC as someone suggested is something you wouldn’t mind doing. But given your assets and the costs you discuss, it isn’t even close. Maybe you have two pensions and can live on that and social security alone. But honestly, it doesn’t look even remotely feasible. And for FA, they look differently at different types of assets. A financial planner can tell you what counts and how it is counted. A FA planner could also discuss how loans are structured and what makes sense for a parent&/child to borrow.
I thought you said the kids had 4 years and 7 years before college? Why are you even thinking about MIT?
I think it’s great you are starting to plan now. Talk to a professional and get the right advice for your situation.
Also no one mentioned taking on a second job before school begins. That is another option which might give you more cash and more options down the road.

@jsb2000

Do both parents work full time?

OK, but the post you were responding to was talking about Roth conversions, and that is where the $300K figure relating to IRAs came from.

I was responding to @brantly…and I clearly said…to Pre tax IRA or TSA accounts. A Roth is usually not either.

First, I agree very much with the general observation posted above that college should not be the tail wagging the financial-planning dog. I would want my financial house in order first, and worry about college second. As a self-employed person, OP should at least look into options for disability insurance and possibly term life. I carried both when I was a working stiff, partly as a reaction to what happened to me at a young age: my dad died quite young and our family was not well prepared to handle the income drop. And just recently, a friend in his 40s died, leaving behind two young kids and not enough life insurance. If your family depends on you for income, this is worth looking into because you never know. This matters a lot more than MIT versus State.

Regarding OP’s assets, actually the thing that jumps out at me is that he has a very large percentage of his non-IRA net worth in a condo that’s not a primary residence. Unlike the hordes of young money managers who’ve entered Wall St since the Great Financial Crisis, parents here with kids on the verge of college are mostly old enough to remember what happened to the US real estate market from 2006 to 2009. The worst-performing part of the residential market was condos. Condos are vulnerable on a number of fronts: lower credit-quality residents tend to catch pneumonia when the economy sneezes, resulting in a cascade of defaults. Meanwhile HOA fees go unpaid, repairs go undone, and entire complexes can lose significant value. If I were in OP’s shoes, I would consider selling my condo, paying off the primary residence’s mortgage, funding a 529 plan up to whatever seems a comfortable level, and preparing for some market turbulence in the years ahead. To pass the time, read *Devil Take the Hindmost.

Read the book “Paying for College Without Going Broke”.

It might not answer the OPs questions but it’s a good read, and might give the OP some food for thought.

I agree with @keiekei that the condo market is the most vulnerable…but this poster clearly stated he had hoped this would be his retirement home. That being the case…it might be worth thinking twice about selling. We don’t know the location, but it’s very possible that if he sells, he won’t be able to purchase again in the future.

And it sounds like the condo is part of his retirement strategy.

He mentions the state university if his kids don’t get accepted to elite schools. You know…it’s also very possible that the instate public university is a gem. We don’t know. But this parent says that is affordable without any financial gymnastics.

And lastly, again…if this kid is a competitive applicant in three or four years for highly competitive schools, this same kid could very well garner enough merit aid someplace that the family jet cost would be $30,000 or less.

Lots of food for thought without selling any assets…at all.

Actually you were responding to @Twoin18 (who was suggesting considering a Roth conversion) in the post I was responding to (not that any of this is very clear in the CC comments sections). Where you wrote:

@Twoin18 there is a dollar limit per year for contributing to retirement accounts…and it’s a LOT less than $300,000.”

Anyway, it seems this is just some crossed signals.

I agree that doing the Roth conversion when the market is depressed is better. But if you sold your appreciated stock or condo to do that you are disposing of assets that would fall anyway. The key issue is that you are losing access to the cash once it’s locked up in the IRA.

If you don’t want to sell it then borrowing more against the condo to pay off your primary mortgage is one strategy that would benefit your EFC and might help even if the market crashes: you have reduced your monthly outgoings on your main home and in extremis you could walk away from the condo if there was no equity left in it.

@Twoin18

I didn’t think it was easy to borrow against a second home.

And this…”artificially” raise our EFC”.

No…it will REALISTICALLY raise your EFC because you have those assets now at your ready to use for college costs…which is your plan.

But you want your assets at the ready PLUS you want maximum need based aid at places like Caltech and MIT…for a kid who is currently not even in high school.

You really would benefit from a financial planner…and find someone who can also help you and your wife with a budget. No one…no one should be using all their assets to pay off excessive credit card debt.

This is what the Thumper family did…

  1. Both parents contributed the maximum to 401K and 403B accounts for retirement.
  2. Both parents worked full time.
  3. House mortgage, car payments and all other debts (including credit cards) were paid in full before first kid started college.
  4. For the seven years we had both kids in undergrad school, we were very careful about our own spending.
  5. Kids took the Direct Loans. We parents took NO loans. We flatly revised to take loans to send our kids to college. Both went to expensive private colleges.
  6. One parent income paid all household expenses. Second parent income paid college costs for all seven years.
  7. You say you can pay $30,000 a year for college based on current income? See what the financial planner says to do...but start putting that $30,000 a year away...now. That’s $120,000 before your first kid even starts college. But a financial planner can better tell you what to do...or not do.

It sounds like you would benefit from seeing a financial person to get your ducks lined up. You have four years before your first kid heads to college.

I would also strongly urge you to spend some time looking for guaranteed merit college awards…once you actually have your kid’s SAT or ACT score…and at least end of year 10th grade GPA.

And lastly…have your kids prep a bit for the PSAT which is taken fall of 11th grade. The score on that is the gatekeeper for National Merit status…and this can open some doors financially.