<p>Dear Harvard: You owe us $300. Your pestered my D with emails and bombarded her with written materials encouraging her to apply. You even told her you knew she had not finished her electronic application. My D earns $30 playing at various functions. The way I see it, it took her 10 hours to complete her application to your school. We sensed that she would not be accepted when her absolutely brillant friend received notice of her rejection via e-mail. Personally, I am glad that we forced you to spend the cost of a stamp and paper to receive notice by mail. It seems unfair that we spent a significant amount in time, our teachers time, materials, etc to send you information that ultimately I suppose didn't amount to much. I wish you well in ensuring that your academic institution maintains a global reputation. As for me and my D, she has been offered full rides at three very fine public institutions. For those of you to come, don't waste your time, save your money and apply to institutions that really care about you and where you are something other than a counted applicant for the applicant pool. So dear Harvard, where do I send the bill? Sincerely, Mom</p>
<p>I don't know if this is serious or not....</p>
<p>If you are serious, please note that H sends out its emails to everyone and you shouldn't believe your daughter is better than the 93/100 who got rejected. Life isn't fair. Get used to it.</p>
<p>This post can't be serious.</p>
<p>I really fear it is true. Harvard is a great institution, I had friends who went there and I spent a spring internship hanging out there back in the olden days, but it's just an institution. If these types of concerns: time, energy and $$ are concerns going in, then I for one am ready for people to wake up and smell the coffee. Otherwise take your shot and stop the blah, blah, blah.</p>
<p>Lighten up, fellas. The OP is just venting. She has not discovered "Say it here..." thread in the Cafe yet. Did you see "I reject your rejection letter" post in the admissions forum? I thought it was hilarious! :)</p>
<p>Venting is exactly what I thought too. Good for you. Vent, get it out and move on for you AND for your daughter's sake. And have fun picking out which one of those lucky publics will become your D's school....!</p>
<p>BunsenBurner's reference....</p>
<p>As many times as we say it to each other, it just doesn't get through. Those encouraging e-mails and picture-books to die for are just marketing tools. Nothing more, nothing less. They do NOT show interest in your specific kid by Harvard. Most entreaties result from a set of demographics that your kid fits. SAT/ACT , zip code, etc. And from Harvard's perspective it worked just as they had planned. You took your shot and now it is done. Vent and move on and tell next years crop again- these are marketing tools- they don't mean diddly.</p>
<p>they send all that mail to get ppl to apply and then reject them...cuz they want a low % of admission :]</p>
<p>Marketing tools, indeed. My D just sorted through a box of college spam. Some brochures were taken to her school's "career office" since it had little OOS college information, some were put back to be consumed by fire later. D saw a small postcard from Amherst that said something along these lines "To save trees, we are not going to mail much spam, so please check our website where you can find lots of information about our great school" What a novel concept! ;)</p>
<p>in the cafe, Thread: the rejection letters they should have written</p>
<p>I actually know someone who sued a private medical school in Illinois for a refund of his application fee, claiming deceptive advertising about the admissions process. He handled the case himself in Small Claims Court and won.</p>
<p>But I am not advocating this! I think the med school in question had a particularly sketchy admissions process, not just multiple mailings of pretty brochures, letters, and enticing emails.</p>
<p>Yes this was a serious post. The facts are "true". Yes this was venting. Sure it is agressive marketing, just like the credit card companies that send those loan checks in the mail. Enlighted institutions, bastions of intellectualism should not be engaging in credit card type marketing. The only thing they lack are the phone calls from the call centers saying "Apply, Apply, Apply". Bottom line, how much taxpayer dollars are spent in 27,000 applicants using thier teacher's time, school counselor's time, high school reigstrar's time in getting this information to them plus hundreds of other schools when their time could be better spent doing something else. This is not to mention the cost of sending SAT scores, SAT II scores, paying for those test, etc. etc. etc. It is interesting to note that those sitting on the College Board advisory board are Ivy League professors. Get over it ? Not just Yet !!!!!</p>
<p>But Maymom1, the odds of acceptance to Harvard ( or similar schools) are known to be uber-slim. Uber-slim. If one doesn't want to play those odds, no need to apply. Many of our kids don't. Despite the mailings.</p>
<p>I don't think my kid applied to any schools based on mailings. Except one safe/match where they offered him a streamlined app. And then offered him merit $.</p>
<p>You don't respond to all the credit card solicitations, do you? I'm wondering if your child applied to Harvard purely motivated by the emails and other marketing? If so, not such a good application strategy. If not, well, yes... you should get over it.</p>
<p>Not so easy, I'm sure. But worthwhile after one or two vents to let it go.</p>
<p>Families absolutely have to distinguish between communications coming from the marketing department and communications coming from admissions. Basically, until you get one of three things -- an actual acceptance letter, a likely letter ("we love you and you will receive an offer of admission on March XX") or an early write ("we love you and we are admitting you before most of the pack”) assume that everything else is just more "stuff" from the marketing department. It has no bearing on whether a kid will or will not get in. Anyone who thinks otherwise or develops expectations based on marketing materials needs to reevaluate.</p>
<p>That said, there were some grey areas this year. On the LAC boards, several students and parents have discussed two top liberal arts colleges that in mid-March sent letters to applicants signed by the regional admissions officers. These letters praised students’ essays, making specific reference to matters they discussed. Those students were ultimately waitlisted. That, I think, is cruel. To me, that kind of personalized letter, coming from the area admissions rep and talking very specifically about a specific kid’s essay, should not go out unless it’s 99% certain the kid will be admitted. (Last-minute news that he/she failed calculus or held up a 7-11 would be justifiable deal breakers).</p>
<p>It's not just the students' time. 27,000 (!!!) kids. Letters of recommendation are required from teachers and guidance counselors (and if one of my students is applying to a highly selective school, I DO take extra care to try really hard to make that letter stand out.) The cost IS more than just the application fee. Extra tests taken. Extra scores sent. The CSS $$ form (don't get me started on that one. What ever happened to accepting the FREE FAFSA?)</p>
<p>Yes, it's marketing. But it is also, to some extent, preying on the hopes and dreams of children.</p>
<p>Personally, I think there should be a triage system. Some of those 27,000 were probably rejected out of hand based on test scores and grades. How about a FREE application to see if a kid should even bother with the rest of it? </p>
<p>Oh, but that would reduce the total number of actual applications, which would lower the selectivity index.</p>
<p>NB - I'm not personally bitter. My son got into all the selective schools he applied to, except for the waitlist at University of Chicago. But I see how this process affects many students and parents at the school where I teach, and I really think that the universities need to rethink how the current process (marketing especially) affects the young people they theoretically exist to serve.</p>
<p>
[quote]
they send all that mail to get ppl to apply and then reject them...cuz they want a low % of admission
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here's goes that canard that won't die.</p>
<p>Schools, including the most selective and most elite, feel they are NOT doing a good job in reaching all possible applicants. Regardless of their single digit acceptance rates, they can't rest on their laurels and need to expand their geographical, SES, and ... racial diversity. For instance, Dean Shaw made a point that Stanford does not reach sufficient candidates in the Southeast and that the school needs to increase their efforts to further diversify the student body through collaboration with the Posse Foundation or Questbridge. </p>
<p>Despite the "marketing" boost and bragging rights of having an extremely low admit rate, the importance of this metric has become insignificant. Does anyobe really think that reaching 30,000 applications would make any difference at Stanford or Harvard? Do they do it to boost the paltry selectivity index that amounts to all of 1.5% at the USNews? Is there such a difference between a 8% rate and a 12% rate. This difference pales in comparison to the thousands of schools with acceptance rates of 50% and the DOZENS of highly selective schools that fall between the two. How low does want need to go to the take the "award" of being the toughest school to get in? </p>
<p>The reality is that those schools are KEENLY interested in every application to help build the BEST class they possibly can. Unfortunately, WE don't know how this optimum class is determined. All we know is that they feel they need to improve their performance and KEEP on changing it. </p>
<p>The changes mean that fewer of a particular group and more of another will be chosen. The only certainty is that 90 to 95% of the applicants will disagree about the validity of the criteria.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>But Maymom1, the odds of acceptance to Harvard ( or similar schools) are known to be uber-slim. Uber-slim. If one doesn't want to play those odds, no need to apply.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Exactly. No one is hiding the ball here. Harvard had clearly publicized its single-digit acceptance rate. I don't see how anyone can be shocked and dismayed when the chances of getting accepted turned out to be very low once again.</p>
<p>Thanks xiggi for that post. It always blows my mind when people actually purport that top schools depress their acceptance percentage regularly for rankings. Not happening. The admissions offices at these schools want the best class possible, and so it follows that they want to be able to have as many applicants as possible, to ensure that they get a really excellent class. And since there's always someone excellent who didn't apply, they're always trying to get more to apply. Nothing sinister about that.</p>
<p>Maymom also just doesn't "get" that there aren't scores and grades that take you AUTOMATICALLY out of competition. In some --yes, rare--circumstances, the Harvards of this world will take kids with low scores who have something else to offer. While it was years ago now and admissions was easier, I remember meeting a young woman from a small rural Texas school with scores in the 1200s (out of 1600) on the SAT. She got in EVERYWHERE. </p>
<p>When you heard her story, it wasn't all that surprising. But if you just looked at her test scores, it was. </p>
<p>So, Harvard is never going to come out and say "Don't apply if you don't meet these minimums" because there really are no minimums. When Harvard mails out all that marketing material, it doesn't know very much about your kid. Usually all it knows is a PSAT or SAT score. (And they do set some minimums on these for mailing things out.)</p>
<p>Way back when, we actually had the opposite experience. It was while Hargadon ruled Princeton admissions. While people I respect who have met him in person say he is very nice, everything I've ever read that he's written or said makes him sound like an absolute twit. </p>
<p>Anyway, my kid got an unsolicited Princeton application in the mail. It came with a cover letter which said that don't think you are good enough for Princeton just because you got this application. Only a very small number of you are good enough for us and you're probably not one of them. </p>
<p>My kid's reaction? "How does he know I'm probably not good enough for Princeton? What kind of **** writes a letter like this! "She tore up the application. </p>
<p>So, I guess colleges just can't win.</p>