<p>I will hopefully get into my dream school. If I do, I will be faced with a major dilemma. Dream and debt or Flagship State school without debt? Does anyone have any stories of their kids making this choice and if it ended up being the right one? If it matters, I want to go to grad school. I am interested in either Chemistry or Engineering and a second major in Economics or Political Science. Thanks!</p>
<p>at this time in your life, You are contemplating college debt and you haven’t firmed up your intentions at college. </p>
<pre><code> ???
</code></pre>
<p>If you’re interested in grad school, you should focus on attending the most prestigious university you can. It is one of the many factors that goes into admissions process, including GRE and recommendations. Recommendations from professors are more highly regarded when they come from a school well-regarded in the particular industry (ie economics for NYU, political science from Berkeley, English and liberal arts from Yale and Bard). The more rigorous the environment, the more likely you are to be intellectually stimulated and the better you will do in both your academic and your extracurricular work that will boost your resume not just for grad school but for future employment as well.</p>
<p>The naysayers who will tell you to cheap out and attend a state public (when, of course, they’re OWN children went to prominent universities on their dime! :rolleyes:) do have a small point. You dont want to exceed a certain limit as far as debt goes; rule of thumb – if you’re paying more than 35-74% of your aggregate future income on debt payments, you should consider the state flagship as a last resort (if merit scholarships doesn’t come through and if the welfare state doesn’t deem you worthy of getting your own money back as “financial aid”). If potential debt loads less than that, then you have to make the decision as to whether your future is worth spending a little bit more time and effort and money.</p>
<p>Need more info…</p>
<p>Which schools are on your list?</p>
<p>How much debt are we talking about?</p>
<p>What are your stats?</p>
<p>Big debt? Are you kidding me?</p>
<p>I disagree with Bedouin. While we know some schools are tops across the board, in every field there are many highly prestigious departments and faculty in state universities and lesser known schools (to the general public). Extremely common. </p>
<p>You can go to such a school, meet highly regarded faculty in your area, work with them (it only takes a bit of initiative to get involved in research at the undergrad level, I don’t care where you go), and you’ll do fine for grad school (assuming all the other parts- gpa, letters, etc. are strong of course). We would be MUCH more likely to take a student who has worked on research and gotten a high praise letter from one of our highly regarded colleagues at State U than a student who graduated from HYPS and worked with a lesser known faculty or got a so-so letter from them. In fact, I would say that is also true at the last two schools I was on graduate admissions for, as well as the school where I got my PhD (a tippy top school- and half my classmates were from schools you don’t hear much of on CC, including myself).</p>
<p>Oh and yeah my kids are following the above strategy. How can I think otherwise when classmates’ in my Phd program paid $100s of thousands for their college and mine was free and yet we ended up at the same place? It’s only undergrad for pete’s sake!</p>
<p>It depends on the ammount of debt you are talking about, and your definition of a dream school. I know a student who went into large debt to attend her dream school which was a small private college…the state school would have been more than sufficient.</p>
<p>Just say no to the big debt. You will be much better off.</p>
<p>D. applied only to schools with known good Merit packages. We did not have to pay tuition in UG and planning to support her thru Grad. School.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s as simple of a question to answer as “say no to debt” or “follow your dream”. In some cases, it is very worthwhile to take on debt, and in some cases it’s very foolish. In life sometimes we have to take calculated risks. To answer your question, you have to make the calculation and determine if the risk is worth taking. Otherwise, it’s a meaningless thread. </p>
<p>In your case, you seem to be gravitating toward fields of study where you can make a decent living. Maybe it’s worth taking on a reasonable amount of debt. You need to get more specific for any more meaningful advice.</p>
<p>I think it depends on how your “dream school” and your flagship compare and what your scholarship options turn out to be. Some state schools are absolutely topnotch and some expensive private schools are pretty mediocre. If your flagship has solid programs in your areas of interest, and it turns out to be cheaper than comparable private options, then I think you’re wise to go there. For some people, however, the elite private option can be cheaper than the flagship if they get a scholarship or financial aid. Until you apply and are accepted, you really won’t know.</p>
<p>If you think you’re headed to grad school, it’s a good idea to study with people who are active researchers in your field of interest. These people can be at public or at private institutions. But grad schools know that smart students get their undergraduate degrees from all over. They are looking less for a “prestige” degree than for talent and for excellent preparation. If you aim too low, your undergraduate institution is unlikely to prepare you adequately for a demanding grad program. But if you are in a state with a strong flagship–Texas, Illinois, Ohio, California, Michigan, Wisconsin, Virginia, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, etc.–you won’t be at any serious disadvantage getting into grad school.</p>
<p>My son faced this question last year. He chose to attend our flagship. Since our family does not qualify for financial aid, it was 75K-100K cheaper than the private options. (He would have had to borrow about half of that money). Since he will not be spending all our college savings on his undergrad education, however, he will have a significant nest-egg available after he graduates to spend on travel, on starting a business, on supplementing any grad school fellowship he receives, or on just generally getting going in life. Our flagship is highly rated overall but is not one of the tippy-top schools in his probable major. Still, it has a strong program–ranked about 35-40 in the nation–with excellent job and grad school placement. My S had taken some classes there during his senior year of high school and knew that there were faculty and other students he would enjoy working with. He’s only just started a few weeks ago, but so far he’s having a marvelous time.</p>
<p>On the other hand, my son’s close friend, a brilliant engineering kid who is a year older than my son, got into MIT two years ago and decided to go for it despite the fact that he would need to borrow significant amounts of money. He too is very happy with his choice and seems to be making the most of his opportunities there. Since he’s planning to go into a high-demand, high-salary field this choice may make sense for him.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that Scientists and Engineers do not make that much $$ to deal with huge debt at the beginning of adult life. Also, engineering firms hire primarily from local colleges. On another hand, engineering is the hardest major and I am not sure how much time you will be able to devote to another major. Normally, engineering is taking 5 years in college all by itself. Some schools have co-ops. Chemistry is all different animal.<br>
Ultimately, it is your decision though.</p>
<p>I agree with post #10. This is a decision which needs to take into account the sort of student you are now and will be at college (are you disciplined and very hard-working and do you intend to be the same way in college?), your prospective career, how much that career pays, how important prestige is in that career, etc. </p>
<p>I’ve told this story several times on CC, but briefly again my S asked advice from people working in his prospective field before deciding which admissions offer to accept. He learned that in that arena, prestige of the undergrad. school did indeed matter. So, he was almost unanimously advised to forgo the free ride to the state school and even the free ride to the top LAC, and instead go into debt in order to attend the Ivy. Now, we knew he would be a very serious student and wouldn’t squander his expensive education. The result is that S is now working in a different career than originally anticipated, but it is still one that really cares about prestige. His first salary is high enough that he will be able to pay off his educational debts very quickly. So it worked out very well for him. Had he been a heavy partier, or had he wanted to work in a low-paying career, we would NOT have made the same choice.</p>
<ol>
<li>No school is worth debt. Unless we are talking ASU vs. Harvard, no school is worth debt. </li>
<li>Do you think you can handle an immediate responsibility that often hinders one’s life for sometime after graduation?</li>
</ol>
<p>I think taking on SOME debt to enable you to go to college is fine. Taking on HUGE debt to attend a dream school, when there are acceptable, less expensive options available, seems foolish to me. I also don’t think you need to go to a prestigious undergrad school to get into a good graduate school. I got into a top program out of a school most people have never heard of. If your test scores and grades are good, I don’t think you’re penalized for not going to a “prestigious” undergraduate institution. Graduate schools (and employers) recognize that many people choose their schools for financial reasons.</p>
<p>Debt–You’ll regret it.</p>
<p>You might regret not going to your dream school, too. But you can always console yourself by saying, “. . .At least I’m debt free!” And that is pretty sweet consolation, IMO.</p>
<p>Miami, it depends on the field and the school. Engineering doesn’t take 5 years at MIT or Caltech- in fact, most strong students at those schools can complete both a BS and MS in their discipline in 5 years if they choose to stay the extra year. 5 years for a BS at my local State U (which is the norm for engineering) means an extra year of tuition and living expenses vs. the pricier private option which can get you out in 4.</p>
<p>It’s great that your D took the free ride and has no debt. That doesn’t mean that this is the answer for every student. </p>
<p>My college roommates son graduated from Cornell engineering a few years ago. It is not true that engineering firms recruit locally- I’m not sure there was a single employer from the Ithaca area who showed up on campus. He took a job with a start up in Palo Alto at a very good salary, started paying off his loans immediately. His company was sold to a giant technology firm earlier this year and although he is not “set for life”, he is as close to it as a 27 year old can be. His stock is worth over a million dollars and he is almost done paying off his loans with what he got as his cash bonus when the deal closed.</p>
<p>I don’t think he regrets Cornell vs. the mid-tier public engineering U he was contemplating.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that “no school is worth debt”. Many schools are worth debt. The question is how much debt, how focused is the student, what are the non-debt options, how many other siblings are there in the family, are the parents healthy 50 year olds or 62 year olds looking at retirement, does the student need a lifestyle which includes a car and various gadgets or is the student used to a spartan student lifestyle. etc.</p>
<p>But you can’t make these decisions in a vacuum.</p>
<p>As beth’s mom suggested, it really depends enormously on the amount (and terms) of the debt. $22K of Stafford loans over four years is one thing; that much or more each year in bank loans is another.</p>
<p>To the OP–My daughter is very happy in her second year at her OOS public scholarship school. She chose it over Chicago and Georgetown. She has been challenged in both of her majors (Japanese and physics) and hasn’t looked back. Her goal is to attend graduate school and the idea of being debt-free was quite appealing. She has always done a great deal of learning on her own and has always been very comfortable talking with adults, so even at a larger school, she is getting to know her professors.</p>
<p>Not all top schools are created equal, either. The Harvard name and education would likely be worth a reasonable amount of debt. One might also take on reasonable debt for Yale, Princeton, MIT, and Stanford. Depending on the major and your geographic area, other schools could be added to that list. But I’m not at all sure I’d allow my child to go into huge amounts of debt for elite schools that are not tippy-top, such as Georgetown or Wash U. They are no doubt wonderful institutions, but the prestige difference would probably not pay off enough to be worth forgoing an inexpensive, solid program at a good state university.</p>