<p>My 11th grade D has a 3.2 unweighted core GPA, taking a mix of generally 3 honors and 2 college-prep level academic classes per year, plus electives. But we got her PSAT scores back today, and they were much lower than I expected. Her Critical Reading was a 57, and her Math score was a 50. I was shocked by her math score, because she scored "advanced" in both Math and Reading on our statewide tests. She finished with B's in Honors Geometry and Honors Algebra 2, and currently has an A- in Pre-Calc (college prep level class). Her writing score was a 53, which isn't great either - and she's generally a B student in Honors English.</p>
<p>Obviously we'll be signing up for an SAT Prep class, and I'm hoping that her Reading will go up some and her math will go up a LOT. </p>
<p>I know that colleges that see high SAT's with low grades tend to think either the kid is a slacker or that their hs is extremely competitive. But what about the other way around? What if a kid has decent grades but awful SAT scores? Do they think, "This kid just doesn't test well?" I'm just wondering how this plays out, if we don't see the hoped-for improvement when she takes the SAT in May. </p>
<p>(Let me clarify that we don't have any Ivy league aspirations, just want to get into a somewhat selective college where D will be surrounded by motivated students. And yes, I have gone to the Fairtest site to look for SAT-optional colleges).</p>
<p>3.2 unweighted wont help too much in admissions. I recommend either try to get that up a lot, or focus on your SATs. Depends on the college also, i would still take SAT because i scored horrible on PSAT and got a 1300 on M+R. It changes vastly.</p>
<p>Does your school have a good academic reputation? If not, the GPA could be seen as "easy school with easy classes." </p>
<p>But otherwise, I think a strong GPA with test scores in the 70-80th percentile says, "really hard worker." That's going to be my current 10th grader, and at least that's what I hope the schools take away from that...not given the greatest academic gifts but makes the most of what she has. In the adult world of work, I think most employers would rather have a person of above average intelligence who really works hard and gets results than a brilliant person who doesn't do much work.</p>
<p>There are actually quite a few students who are hard workers but just don't quite know how to take a reasoning test. The math section is fairly conceptually redundant, so it'll help her to go through the problems in the book, and if she gets stuck, to see how the answer is achieved, and, most importantly, recognize how to apply these concepts in similar problems. Vocabulary requires a decent cognizance of the standard pronouns/roots/suffixes. Again, these will facilitate cognizance of linguistic patterns, rather than trying to just memorize one million different words. As for reading, fundamentally, simply doing more of it will strengthen her reading skills.</p>
<p>Take another look at the PSAT report. It's broken down by areas. </p>
<p>My kid aces standarized tests--I'm not bragging; it's just a skill. The night before the SAT a friend with low PSATs who had done nothing to prepare for the SAT asked my kid for advice on what to do to get a better score on the SAT. My kid asked to see a copy of his PSAT report. Kid took a look at it and informed him that he had done okay on the questions he'd answered. The problem was that he hadn't answered enough. He didn't finish the test and it was evident that he'd run out of steam on the reading sections. So, my kid pointed out that every right answer counts the same. My kid told friend to skip the reading sections and move on through the verbal part. When he'd finished the rest of the test, then he should go back and do as much of the reading sections as he could. </p>
<p>End result? Verbal score increased more than 100 points because he answered more questions. Instead of taking a SAT prep course to improve for retest senior year, the friend took a reading course. That boosted his score--and more importantly, he found college much easier than expected because the work load is lighter if you read at a faster pace. </p>
<p>So before running out and enrolling in the SAT-prep course, look at the report. The math portion doesn't include pre-calc. Your D may simply have forgotten some algebra and/or geometry. It may be more time-effective to focus on the particular area that's rusty. Did your D finish each section? If not, then maybe the problem is the pace at which she worked. Did she move on quickly when she got "stuck" on a problem--or try to work it out, thereby using up precious time? </p>
<p>These are just examples. The point I'm trying to make is that the reason WHY she didn't do well is important. Look at the PSAT report and try to figure out what went wrong. Are the wrong answers in a few sections or concentrated in one area? Did she guess too much--points are taken off for wrong answers and the formula is published. Did she finish? </p>
<p>Bottom line: what you should do depends upon why she got the scores she got. Look at the score report and see if it offers any clues.</p>
<p>I've got one who aced all standardized tests (and who, for graduate school, had a higher math GRE - she having taken no math in six years and being a music/Italian studies major - than the average entering engineering grad student at MIT and Caltech); and one who could never master them, worked very hard trying to get better at them, and had her score go down rather than up. </p>
<p>Both are doing quite well. Sometimes, it's just the way things are.</p>
<p>I would first have her take a practice ACT test (not the PLAN because that is meant for 10th graders), but just a full practice timed ACT test. If she scores higher on that, then I would have her just focus on the ACT. If not (the ACT does have a few, think it's 4, trig questions), then I would hire a private tutor for a few hours to help her with the math section of the SAT.</p>
<p>Mom, where does the 3.2 put her rank wise in her high school? Is this a very competitive school with no grade inflation? At he public high schools in my area, a 3.2/1600 would go hand in hand and be no cause for concern.</p>
<p>^^^ hmom, I wish I knew about the ranks. Our hs doesn't do ranks until fall of Senior year. Her brother is 3 years older and went to the same hs. At this point in 11th grade he had an unweighted core of 3.5, and he ended up ranked 18th out of 380 - but he kicked serious academic butt his Senior year (straight A's, all honors & AP). D has a pretty competitive class. Her guidance counselor guessed maybe 2nd - 3rd decile? (Our hs switched from exact ranks to deciles after S graduated.)</p>
<p>afistcher, I told you we're not aiming Ivy. Or NESCAC or Patriot League, for that matter. jmom, I'm thinking more mid-level private or flagship state. She has excellent EC's (varsity sport, class officer, etc) but I know the colleges won't look at EC's unless she has the grades and test scores first. I expect solid recommendations - teachers like her, they see her as a hard worker who is respectful, creative, well-liked, and a role model for her peers. </p>
<p>Missypie, you're right about percentiles, she's 71st overall. I"m hoping you're right about the "hard worker making the most of her abilities" viewpoint! I have no doubt that when she gets to the "real world" she will succeed. She has great people skills, is well-organized, and likes to DO things. Unfortunately, here in the academic world, she doesn't like to read or write papers. But she is good at planning & organizing events and motivating people. She's also great at projects.</p>
<p>This is just a very new experience for me, since her older brother was 98th percentile on the PSAT with NO prep (2150 SAT, again no prep). Of course, here on CC that makes him a slacker, ha ha!</p>
<p>jonri, thanks for your thoughtful reply. We went over the score report. Her biggest problem was algebra. Also, she says she ran out of time. But she only left a few scattered ones blank. Her GC said she should have left more blank. Do less guessing, only answer the ones she's sure of. I think some "strategy" as taught by an SAT prep class will help. Ironically, I have a relative who tutors SAT math - but she lives 200 miles away!</p>
<p>I have always despised standardized testing. Mostly stemming from the fact that my sister could score a 1600/1600 in junior high school with almost no effort, but even though I worked hard I still had no where near her scores. I didn't have a really low math score on my PSAT, but I did struggle on the writing and the reading sections. In fact I ended up with around a 170, but my SAT ended up being 2280 after 1 year of work. I put a ton of effort in raising my SAT score, and it wasn't easy. The first thing you need to make sure is that your D really wants to work harder on the SAT, if she isn't committed it won't matter how much you push her, she won't get much better. </p>
<p>SAT Prep classes are a waste of money. They dumb the class so it is tailored for Joe Blogg (PR) rather than the individual person. While the most beneficial would be a SAT tutor, those can cost thousands of dollars and don't provide the same yield of ROI (return on investment) that simply studying on your own would. [This means studying in a proper manner, not blindly doing SAT practice sections]</p>
<p>Have you D check out the SAT/ACT forum. There is tons of advice on how to improve scores and that is where I turned to when I first started studying and my practice SAT scores did not change at all. </p>
<p>I found that the Xiggi Method was very good and really helped me with my CR skills. It allowed me to tackle the passages in the right mentality. The bracket technique was a really good way of answering some questions (doesn't work for everyone).</p>
<p>Writing was the easiest section to raise my score in. I used the Rocket Review book as well as the Xiggi method to dramatically improve my Writing and essay score (from SAT 1 to SAT 2).</p>
<p>^ great advice. Definitely check out the SAT/ACT boards here. My SAT scores went up a lot from my initial practice tests and 150 points between official testings because of those boards. </p>
<p>also, keep in mind that a lot of students don't know how few questions they can really miss. When I first took the PSAT practice test, I was shocked that even -1 could be a 74 or 75 on the math! When you look at it like that, you can hardly afford to miss any on a section to get a decent score...</p>
<p>I had to think about this thread. First...the title...MOM..your child did not BOMB the SAT...she hasn't TAKEN the SAT yet. On the PSAT, there is a range of scores that might be indicated by the score your child got on the PSAT. For all you know...your kid will be the one at the TOP of that range when she takes the SAT. Second...I honestly think there is NOT a disconnect between your child's standardized test scores and PSAT scores. Both are in the average to slightly above average range. </p>
<p>Certainly, you might want to look into a prep course...if your child is motivated to do that sort of thing. We had one kid who did all of the practice tests and was very motivated to do better on the SAT. His score improved by over 200 points on the two sections CR/Math. The other child didn't really put forth much effort in that prep course, and her scores really didn't change a bit. Her math score was fine...she told us she hoped to improve her verbal..it went down ten points. Math went up. Still...she got accepted at four of the five schools to which she applied (rejected at a mega reach). </p>
<p>There are tons of colleges out there that will welcome your daughter into their ranks. In my opinion, the best gift you can give her is to look at her for what SHE brings to the table and do not compare her to her brother. They are different, and their college searches will likely be different. I don't know them...but my guess is their interests are also different.</p>
<p>"... I'm hoping that her Reading will go up some and her math will go up a LOT."</p>
<p>Um, all I wanted was to prepare my daughters to do their best. I don't know whether your D would respond better to tutors or prep courses or practice tests or just being left alone for a few months --- and I can't tell whether she's a better "match" for the SAT or ACT or score choice. I guess that puts me in the camp with afitscher, yawn, twomules, jonri, northeastmom, vasuduvank and thumper. Good luck with this.</p>
<p>thumper1, yes my children are very different. Each has their own strengths and different interests. As I said, I have no doubt my D will do fine in life. I think in the "real world" her people skills will do as much for her as her brother's academic prowess will do for him... but my current quandry is finding a way to maximize her college choices. I know she didn't bomb the SAT yet... but her PSAT scores were about 7.5 -10 points lower than I had expected/hoped for, and I kind of doubt her SAT score is going to magically rise that much without some sort of intervention.</p>
<p>In general, I try not to compare D and her brother, but he's currently a student at a highly selective LAC that she has decided she really likes. She plans to apply there. I don't think it's a good fit for her - I think she'll be over her head academically, and they don't offer one of her favorite ECs - and these scores are confirming that for me. (I also don't think they'll admit her, but her desire to go there has been a good motivational tool.) But in the mean time, the fact that she wants to go to the same school as S is what leads me to compare them academically. Also, it gives me a way to gage class rank until the school does it next fall.</p>
<p>D actually requested that I find her a prep class, and I think it will help. I will also check out the SAT board. I know there are many resources for the motivated student (I'm really curious about the Xiggi method, I've heard so much good about it!). But the reason D actually requested a class was that she knew she wasn't motivated enough to do it on her own. She doesn't want to analyze her test score, and pore thru books on her own. She stays busy with school and 3 EC's that she loves, and her new BF (a nice kid with good grades, he'd be a good influence if he just took up a little less of her time!). If someone walks her thru an SAT exercise and assigns homework she'll do it, but she's not self-disciplined enough to lay out a course of study for herself and follow thru.</p>
<p>I know there are CC parents who would say I should make her drop some EC's to focus more on her schoolwork and SAT prep, but I'm not going to do that. She truly loves all 3 of her ECs. And I'm not going to put too many limits on her social life. After all, you only get to be a teenager once. I am totally in agreement with Blossom, that we should "Love the kid on the couch, not the kid you wish you had." I'm just wondering what a college is going to think of a kid with decent grades in more-challenging-than-average program, who has very middling SAT scores for the area we live in. And after seeing where her brother is now and the kind of people he has become friends with, D has become a little bit "picky" about colleges. She wants to go to a "good" school with nice facilities and kids who are there for more than just drinking parties. Most of her friends take Honors classes, she likes being around smart, motivated kids. So I'm trying to figure out how to get her where she wants to be without changing the great kid that she is.</p>
<p>A hard worker. GPA is more important than SAT in predicting college success. I'd get her into a review class, do practice SATs one each week and not worry.</p>
<p>Irony - I've never been a fan of the SAT. Even though I did very well on the SAT (way back in the day) with no prep, and DS aced them with no prep, I've still cheered every time I see a school that goes SAT optional. I refuse to believe that performance on a single test on a single day could in any way compare to a GPA earned over 4 years. I know all the arguments about grade inflation, and comparing between schools.... but I disliked the SAT even when I had a kid who benefitted from high scores!</p>