Hi. My D was admitted to Georgetown (College of A&S) and Vanderbilt (A&S) as a transfer for Fall 2023 and will be a sophomore. She is social sciences / humanities (psychology, ethics, philosophy) oriented and would currently intends to go to law school (ideally T15 then Big Law job). She was in a sorority at her prior school but would not be able to rush at Vanderbilt (they don’t have a chapter of her sorority). Assume cost is essentially, as she is not receiving any FA. We live in the DC area so know the pros and cons of DC really well. She likes DC but likes Nashville too. She’s transferring from a well-regarded but not T25 state school, in part for smaller size of school and classes, more intellectual vibe, and prestige. (At least based on what I’ve gleaned from her.)
Note: She also was admitted to Northwestern but is highly likely to decline because of quarter system, perceived stress level, arguably not great integration of transfers, and weather. (Feel free to challenge any of those observations.)
Would any of you be able to offer insight regarding any of the following (or any other considerations you feel might be relevant:
How easy it is for transfers to integrate into campus life at each.
Vibe / personality of student body - competitiveness, collaboration, friendly, pre-professional, etc.
Quality of instruction, class size, professors in those areas of study
Placement in T15 law schools - GU has early assurance, Vandy does not but seems to admit a fair number to its law school.
Stress level / grade deflation
Prestige in Mid-Atlantic / Northeast, particularly among law schools / law firms
Difficulty of fulfilling AXLE versus GU Core Curriculum (she doesn’t mind the Theology / Philosophy reqs). for GU
Challenges of being non-Greek at Vandy / social pressure for women at Vandy (many posts suggest female’s appearance, dressing up, body type is an issue there)
Any other relevant considerations.
Thank you so much for your insights. And, if there’s a different sub-reddit you think this is better directed to, please let me know. Thanks again!
Nothing to add but the latest CDS shows Vandy at more than double the transfers of Gtown.
You needn’t be at a top name to go to a top law school. That’s a fallacy so I’d take law school out of the equation. Harvard, as an example,has students from 174 colleges including the likes of Cal State LA, Fairleigh Dickinson, Bloomsburg of PA and many flagships that don’t sniff the top 100.
It doesn’t seem like the Early Assurance is assured. Just that you apply early. You might see what guarantees are there for that. And coming in as a second year it might be harder to secure a recommendation.
For what it’s worth, NU is similar in transfer enrollment to Vandy. It’d be hard to pass given its overall standing vs the other two, since it appears your student is prestige driven. If she’s a top student, I wouldn’t let the calendar derail me if I had a top choice.
Best of luck.
Ps my daughter has two non Greek friends at Vandy. We are local. Both are extremely happy. I don’t go there but knowing a couple boys as well I think the perception is overstated.
While Harvard may take students from many schools, is it easier to gain admission from a T20 school? If someone has a 3.9 GPA from Vandy or Gtown, wouldn’t they be looked at more favorably than someone with a 3.9 from Cal State LA?
I don’t believe so. I think gpa, lsat, recommendations and today work experience. More and more law students are getting. I think lsat weighs an absolute ton.
I think top kids go to many schools. It might be due to cost or location (close to home) or football etc. whatever the reason.
One thing they have in common is they are a top kid. And they will excel in life because of themselves, not the school.
I know a student who turned down Ivy Law for a large state school ranked in the 30s. Went for free. Clerking for a federal judge. Already a huge salary lined up at a firm. Another is at a private in Florida ranked in the 70s. Chose over Vandy Law. Purely money. I am not betting against her career success.
Top kids win because they are top. Not because of a school - I believe. At the grad level I realize yes the school helps.
Now will Harvard have more Harvard or other top school kids vs the U of Arkansas in its class.
Yea but not because they went to better schools. But because they had a much higher caliber student at that school to begin with. Just like grad school is gpa and test centric, so is undergrad. So the smartest at time of undergrad applications are also likely the smartest at the time of grad school. And the heaviest concentration at undergrad went to those highest tier schools - if that makes sense.
I’m fairly familiar with law school admissions, and certain schools actually do place more students into the T14 law schools than others. So while every top school will take students from a wide variety of schools, there o tend to be feeders. Vandy to its credit posted its 2022 admissions to all law schools along with grades and LSAT scores. It did not fair as well as I’d have thought.
w/r/t GULC Early assurance, it about doubles the admission rate and deemphasizes LSAT significantly.
That being said, I do think law school is only one of many considerations and likely not even the most significant. She could also decide she has no interest in applying to law school.
I also really appreciate your PS, “My daughter has two non Greek friends at Vandy. We are local. Both are extremely happy. I don’t go there but knowing a couple boys as well I think the perception is overstated.” That’s the kind of insight that is so valuable around those intangibles. You’re fortunate to live in Nashville. Great city!!! My mother grew up there.
The Mrs has long wanted out of Nashville - for like ten years. But it’s a good place to live althiugh has gotten pricey.
There are Vandy parents on here who will have better insight.
As for law school admissions, I’m not disputing certain schools place better than others. I noted that. But it’s based on the quality of the student they had to begin with moreso than the institution name is what I’m saying. And given the LSAT likely outweighs the academics it makes sense the top schools have higher placement levels into top law schools. Northwestern is going to have a much much much higher caliber student than Bloomsburg. You know that just based on undergrad admissions and that’s why it translates that they’ll have more at top law schools. But it’s my belief, right or wrong, that it’s the student and not the school. Of course some may also have resources to ‘prep’ better.
I assumed law school was the top consideration from the first post. But now it seems you lessened the likelihood.
Truth is you have 3 wonderful acceptances. And she’s clearly a strong test taker as at least gtown considered it ( hence she’ll likely do well on the lsat). Has she visited all three ? Forgetting calendar, which did she have most comfort with ?
Ps - nearly half of Vandy students did not submit test scores. I bet those type students struggle most with law school. Because you have to be a good test taker to get into the best ones !!!
At Harvard maybe. Would have to see if school loyalty is a consideration. . At other schools no unless they don’t normally get a Harvard student. Widening the geographic breadth of your student body is a great thing for schools.
I think it’s very impressive personally. And informative. No matter where you go you still need to deliver so I’d expect few admits overall from all top schools. And more to middling law schools than top. But their top schools attended are still strong. And you’d need other schools to give you the same data to really compare.
Thank you. I sincerely appreciate the valuable insight into the law school admissions issue but also appreciate the insight you and others have provided on the other questions posed, which are of similar relevance to her.
It’s quite informative for students at any school. I like how they show the admits gpa and test scores. You can also see the t4 take anyone !! My daughter is in social science. Law isn’t for her but a legal degree would be invaluable to her desired career path. Or maybe an lsw. I’ll remember this chart for if she ever decides on a legal path. So thanks !!
It would be interesting to see schools publish results by TO vs test submission undergrad. I don’t know but I’d guess there’s a story there - that the TO to top schools underperform in law school admissions vs the initial test submitters. Gtown essentially requires a test for undergrad so I can see them doing well at law school time.
Still with Vandy having clusters at Harvard (its biggest), Vandy, Gtown, Columbia, Fordham and Duke, many students are getting top tier outcomes. Ok Fordham isn’t top tier but highly respected.
I wholeheartedly agree that Vandy is quite solid. Given its stellar and rapidly ascending undergraduate reputation, however, I’d have expected more placements into the most selective schools. Not having stats from other schools to see how well their students are placing makes comparison impossible. I applaud Vandy for posting theirs.
I would agree, and I think that is empirically more accurate. There is clearly higher representation of placement from let’s say T25 undergrad universities and LACS into T14 law schools. It could be for a lot of reasons (a number of which have been suggested already), and one still must have a top grades and LSAT scores. That being said, certain undergraduate institutions do have higher admit / matriculation rates into the T14.
I’d also be interested if anyone has any insight into any of the other issues I raised besides law school. Thanks.