I’m having a hard time deciding between Pomona and Princeton. I was thrilled and surprised to be accepted into my two top choices, but now I have no idea which one to choose (a good problem to have). I visited last year and could see myself fitting in at both schools. Also, I’m hoping to gain some clarity when I attend admitted students days for them in a few weeks. I’m planning to study biology in particular environmental studies/sustainability. My main concern about Princeton (especially in Biology) is having large lecture style classes with graduate students teaching. However it seems like Princeton has more resources than Pomona. I was wondering if anyone has any advice about this decision, insight into the schools, or tips for making the most out of admitted students days. Thanks!
Congratulations on your acceptances. You have a super problem to have. I would definitely go to Princeton. It is number 1 in the rankings because it is a great educational institution
Wow. Two of my favorite colleges, too! One of my kids ended up at Pomona (and is now in med school), but I’m not going try to nudge you one way or the other. (If you were pre-med, it would be another story, but it doesn’t sound like you are). With respect to admitted students days, definitely work an overnight into your Pomona experience (I believe Princeton’s automatically includes an overnight). You’ve already identified “class size” and “resources” as concerns. Try to flesh out the details of what those will mean to you on a practical level as an undergrad, and see if those perceptions ring true during your admitted day experiences. Both colleges will obviously try to put their best foot forward, so try to carve out as much “typical time” as possible to get a sense of how you will interact with other students and profs on a regular basis. Again, congratulations!!!
This is a personal choice. Nevertheless, it takes courage to turn down Princeton in most situations.
Pomona only has undergraduates, while Princeton is a doctoral institution. Your choice academically will come down to whether you want the extra opportunities from Pomona, or the benefits that come with being around grad students at Princeton.
Rankings are pretty irrelevant here since they’re on different systems.
While I think that, in many ways, Pomona provides one of the best undergraduate educations out there, and I am, in general, pretty Ivy-skeptical, IMO, Princeton provides possibly the best biology undergraduate education there is. Depending on your interests in biology, I would only say that about Princeton and Cornell.
I know both schools fairly well, having taken a few classes at Pomona when I attended one of the other Claremont Colleges (CMC), and one of my kids is a Princeton graduate. Both are great colleges but, for me, Princeton would be the clear choice. In my view, it’s the best college in America.
@MWolf, I wonder if you could say more about why you feel Princeton’s biology program is superior. D19 is also choosing between Princeton and another school as a prospective molecular biology major.
@Curiosa This is all, my opinion, of course. I spent time with Princeton undergraduates of the biology department (along with many Ecology students), and one of the main messages I got was the enormous amount of resources and opportunities that were available to them. Access to work at labs, hanging out at departmental weekly social/work meetings (usually reserved for grad students and faculty), and, in general exposure to the world of biological research where most would end up. Princeton also has a more intellectual bent in the biology department, whereas other top schools tend to have a “we train MD’s”, or “we do research for Biomedical industries” attitude.
Pomona is an amazing school, and competes for the #1 spot among liberal arts colleges. It also has the benefit of a an adjacent graduate school and full blown National University-level research labs at the Keck Science department. However, these are all still smaller and less integrated into the undergraduate system than at Princeton. On the other hand, because of the strong links of the 5 C’s, and their physical proximity, Pomona is less like a “typical” LAC, and more like a small National University (the number of undergraduates at the Claremont colleges is about equal to the number of graduates at Princeton).
Make no mistake, either would provide an top of the line education in biology, and I would actually recommend Pomona over most other schools, the exceptions being, as I wrote, Princeton or Cornell. Also, if a person’s preference is for Pomona, because of atmosphere, the climate, or even a preference for Southern California over mid new-Jersey, Pomona would be the better choice.
Some important caveats:
- The differences between the #1 college for Biology and the #50 are really small, and the differences across the range are so small, that a kid who does their undergrad in college #200 could do their PhD at university #5 without anybody noticing a difference in how well they are trained in their field or in how prepared they are for graduate school. Most employers would also not be able to tell the difference, and often, a "lower ranked" college, with a better system for setting up their students with internships, will produce students who are better trained for the workplace than colleges which are "ranked" 100 places higher.
- Because of 1, the match between a student's personality and the culture and overall character of a college is much more important for a student's colleges experience and their overall success, both at college and in life, that no supposedly "objective" ranking is more important than a student's subjective ranking - which is the #1 college for the student.
- My advice actually somewhat violated my own philosophy, which is that research universities and liberal arts colleges are on separate ranking systems, and comparing them makes little sense - you either prefer one type or the other. However, smaller private colleges, which are based on a more liberal arts education concept are, in some limited way, similar to LACs, and Claremont colleges, with it's closely connected colleges and it's joint graduate school/research-university level science department, has some similarities to these smaller private colleges.
^^ Well said. Both schools are so good that no one student could ever take advantage of all the opportunities on offer. So the question is not which is objectively “better” - the question is which school best resonates with you, and thus sets you up to thrive. The sky’s the limit at either school. You should feel no internal or external pressure that you “should” go to one or the other, or conversely that you “should not” turn one or the other down. There’s an enviable road-not-taken built into this decision either way. Go with your gut and have no regrets. The good news is that they’re different enough to give your gut something to work with.
One question to ask yourself is whether your path through your obviously-impressive undertakings and achievements tends to be more relationship-driven, or more driven directly by your interests and goals. There’s nothing wrong with either type of temperament, but people have different ways of getting from one opportunity to the next, in life, kwim? If you’re someone who tends to connect with opportunities through people and relationships, then I would favor Pomona, where you will be in small classes and build relationships with top-tier faculty from day one. If you’re more of a just-go-get-what-you-want-regardless-of-who’s-involved kind of person, then Princeton.
Another thing to look at, given your interests, is the degree of interdisciplinary crossover between environmental studies/analysis/science and biology. At Pomona, the Environmental Analysis major has four tracks, one of which is specifically environmental science… and the biology major allows for specialization, with many opportunities to tilt toward ecology and related field work. Blending emphases in whatever way you feel called to should be very easy. I’m not familiar with the details at Princeton, but this is a comparison worth making. Also, since you’re interested in environmental issues, it could be worth considering what real-world settings are available to you in each locale. In LA, you’d have easy access to the coast, to the desert, to the mountains, and to developed urban/suburban sprawl that’s grappling with the myriad challenges of water supply, fires, pollution, and so on. Princeton obviously has proximity to several different types of ecosystems too, but the overlap isn’t even close to 100%, so the research emphases are likely to differ too.
Congrats and good luck!
@MWolf: I like your thought shared in post #8 above: “…research universities and liberal arts colleges are on separate ranking systems, and comparing them makes little sense–you either prefer one type or the other.”
While not in total agreement with the quote, I think that it is a reasonable starting point when evaluating colleges & universities. LACs & National Universities offer different experiences.
I didn’t think that grad students taught many classes. They do run Precepts for the large lecture classes but it seems in my D’s experience all her classes have been taught by Profs.
What are your plans after you finish Undergrad? If you plan to pursue Grad school/PhD then I think Princeton is a great choice for that. There is already research built into your degree as you’ll have to complete 2 jr papers and then your Sr Thesis. My D (and I believe @sherpa S also) completed the Integrated Science Curriculum as frosh. While challenging it’s a great experience and leads to amazing opportunities. Your lectures will be small with some Nobel Prize winning lecturers in that program.
@Dolemite is correct; my S completed the 2 year ISC sequence. With your focus on biology, I’d recommend you look into ISC; while it an integration of chemistry, biology, physics, and computer science, my son reported that its main thrust is biology. He was a physics concentrator, and found ISC both challenging and enjoyable.
@Dolemite Right now I’m thinking I do want to pursue grad school. Maybe even law school to get into environmental law and policy. Thank you for dispelling my notion that I would have a lot of classes with graduate students. I am beginning to lean towards Princeton, but I’m still not really sure. I want to wait till my campus visits before I jump to any conclusions.
Princeton.
No affiliation w either but PTon based on what you say. Almost no grad students in biomedical research at Pton compared to Harvard, Columbia or Penn. Harvard and Penn have huge grad student operations largely due to ginormous med schools- pton does not have a Med school. PTon values undergrad teaching a lot. Would be stunned if lectures were not by Profs in bio related classes
Check out this link and especially the Undergrad menu item with all the offerings available: https://environment.princeton.edu/
I think the Princeton alumni network is pretty extensive and powerful. I would say Princeton unless you really don’t want to do the Junior Papers and Senior Thesis.
When my son was deciding between Pomona and Princeton among others, it didn’t take long to commit to Princeton for the following reasons:
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Yes, OP is correct that Princeton has more resources to pour into its focus on undergrad education, experience and opportunities. It’s been perennially #1 in Endowment per Student, $2,839,298 per student (vs. Pomona’s $1,295,755).
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No, grad students do not teach those courses with large number of undergrads. All courses are taught by the faculty. Princeton’s Preceptorial system allows an intimate discussion and learning environment a la Oxford Tutorial system. Their faculty to student ratio is known to be one of the lowest, even compared to LAC’s.
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Princeton’s alumni network, as already mentioned above by others, is considered the strongest of any colleges out there.
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Ultimately, though, my son’s (and our’s as parents) decision came quickly thanks to much better FA offer from Princeton.
Do you want to be on the east coast or west coast?
Net cost?
Make sure to pick what is best for you … you may get pressure that Princeton is more well known but you would prefer to stay out west. You cannot go wrong with either choice.