Decision Advice?

College Search & Selection
1

I have no idea where to go to school. I have been accepted into IU, Purdue, UMich, and Notre Dame. I am still waiting for decisions from Northwestern (applied RD) and UChicago (EA deferred). I plan to major in biology with one or two minors, perhaps political science and/or philosophy if possible. I also plan to attend med school after graduation. I have visited all of the campuses listed above except UMich and honestly liked all of them a lot.

Here are a few of my concerns:

-Cost of attendance for the private schools and UMich (I live in Indiana); my family would be able to afford them, but my concern is whether the increased cost is worth any comparative benefit
-Probability of acceptance into and preparation for med school
-Accessibility and quality of research opportunities available to undergraduates
-Campus atmosphere conducive to having a good time and a life outside of schoolwork (athletic programs, party scene, etc.)

I understand that this decision is mine, but I want to make sure that my decision is as informed as possible. If anyone has any helpful insight into any of the specific schools above, general advice about going about this decision, or anything else that might be of help, it would be greatly appreciated.

2

Notre Dame has great research opportunities for undergrads, but yeah, tough decision. I’d probably try to have a very frank talk with the parents about finances–after all, the “cost/benefit” analysis can’t really happen without a clear understanding of their view of the “cost” side of the equation. You’ve gotten into a bunch of terrific schools, though, and it’s not really possible to go wrong with any of them. @ethanhicks09

3

Thoughts:

-I kind of don’t see the point of going to Michigan when you have been accepted to two excellent in-state public options. Indiana and Purdue are both great public universities at which you’ll pay resident rates, so unless you’ve been offered significant aid at Michigan (which it doesn’t sound like) honestly I wouldn’t consider it. It’s not really worth a comparative benefit, particularly if you actually do go to medical school.

-ALL of these schools have excellent research opportunities, and all of them will prepare you for medical school. You can’t really predict the probability of medical school acceptance from any of them - that really depends on your own performance more than anything else. Suffice it to say, though, that if you get the kind of record you need, getting into medical school won’t be a problem from any of these universities.

-If you are interested in the athletics scene, it seems to me that Purdue, Indiana, and Notre Dame are the best places to go for that (and Michigan, if we were considering it). Most large public universities have diversified social scenes that allow you to enjoy yourself outside of school and party; Notre Dame is also pretty noted for it’s fun social life. All of them are in small college towns so no real differences in atmosphere.

-Relatedly - not that UChicago and Northwestern students don’t have fun, because they do, but going to school (and partying) in a competitive environment with a bunch of uber-smart, elite students is a different environment than going to a public university with students of all stripes. Chicago and Northwestern (and Notre Dame, too, although perhaps to a lesser extent - because the atmosphere is different) are going to have that more academic, intellectual, fairly serious vibe most of the time. Chicago in particular is known for quirky, intellectual students. Indiana and Purdue will just have a different vibe - not that there aren’t quirky, intellectual, or even uber-smart students there, but there’s more of a range since they are large and public. Personally, I think there’s no shame in choosing the lower-stress, more socially-oriented environment if that’s what you want - I did, and if I were to go to college over again I’d emphasize those traits again. You can still get a really high-quality education. Some people also like being a big fish in a metaphorically smaller pond.

-Notre Dame is great but if it’s significantly more expensive than Indiana or Purdue, I’m not sure that the cost differential makes it worth it. It depends on the difference, though - how much would you have to pay at each? I’m 8 years out of college and I have a graduate degree, and as someone in that position I’ll say I’d rather have little debt from a less-prestigious undergrad than a lot of debt from a more-prestigious undergrad. If you do go to medical school, where you went to undergrad won’t matter so much.

-I think you need to wait for Northwestern and Chicago - they both have generous financial aid policies, so if you are admitted it’s quite possible for them to offer enough money to make them the same price, or cheaper, than Indiana or Purdue. Then you also have some geographic considerations, since Chicago is in Chicago and Northwestern is pretty close to it. Bloomington and West Lafayette are both only about an hour from Indianapolis, though. South Bend’s about an hour and a half from Chicago. None of that matters unless you have access to a car, though, whereas from UChicago and Northwestern you’re either in the city or likely have reliable public transit to it.

4

Are you admitted to Honors at IU, or receiving any perks, like guaranteed research access etc?

If ND involves loans, I wouldn’t say (as another IN resident), that the difference in perceived prestige between IU/Purdue and ND for undergrad would be a reason to choose ND over the others for a student considering med school. And I would generally agree with Julliet above, good advice there. All the schools are large enough that a student will find their niche, and certainly IU and ND have big party scenes with big athletics (though IU is really bball whereas ND is football).

To what extent is the Catholic culture at ND a consideration for you? That is a significant difference between the IN publics and ND.

5

If med school is your end game, I’d prioritize keeping undergraduate costs as low as possible.

Also, if there is a school of thought popularized by Malcolm Gladwell that suggests that student and later professional success is higher if you are within the top 1/3 of your class academically. This is supposed to be especially true math/science oriented fields. While I find his methods a bit iffy, I believe that his conclusions are sound.

A strong GPA from any of those schools, plus a strong MCAT score, will provide a solid foundation for med school.

However, if you desire that peak, heady intellectual experience, @juillet is correct - there is more of that at Northwestern and Chicago, to a degree. You’ll find plenty of smart peers at any of your choices.

Congratulations on all of your acceptances!

6

This is the general thought on CC. Med school costs a lot.

This is what they use for Med School admissions. All your schools will prepare you for med school. The name is unimportant.

7

Thank all of you for your thoughts and advice!

@marvin100 Yes, ND does have excellent research opportunities; out of my list, it is probably second only to Chicago in that department. My parents have basically said that they will pay for me to go to any of the schools, but they are understandably concerned about whether their money is being spent wisely.

@juillet I agree with you about Michigan; it is pretty much off the table. It is a great school, but it is pretty far from home and probably not worth the out of state tuition. In terms of financial aid, I doubt that I will get very much if any, so ND, Northwestern, and Chicago would probably be full ticket price. I have been offered $8,000/year scholarships from IU and Purdue. I understand that those schools would make more sense financially, but I want to make sure that I am not missing out on the opportunity to attend arguably better schools.

@Midwestmomofboys Yes, I was offered honors at both purdue and IU, but I have not heard anything about perks like guaranteed research access. ND would not involve loans; I am just concerned about wasting my parents’ money. In terms of the Catholic culture at ND, I am not Catholic myself, but from what I have seen it seems like that aspect of the school is kind of there if you want it, but easily avoidable if you do not. I don’t think I would mind the Catholicism around me, but I myself would not participate.

@mamaedefamilia @“Erin’s Dad” So, are you guys saying that going to Purdue or IU would actually give me a better chance of admission to med school because my GPA would likely be higher at those schools than at the more prestigious ones?

8

Since you’ve been deferred from UChicago, it means you’re not among their top applicants. Therefore, it means your odds of being in the top 20% (what you need for med school, regardless of undergrad) are very low, hence making a 3.6+ highly unlikely. So, unless you crave the intellectual atmosphere at UChic - which your other choices don’t indicate - I’d cross it out, as you’re basically not going to med school from UChic.
Have you visited IU, Purudue, and ND? Attended two classes (one freshman gen ed, one in your chosen major), read the campus paper, eaten in the cafeteria, talked with several students…?
Catholicism is a big part of ND, you don’t have to believe or partake but it’s inescapable.
No, your GPA would NOT be higher at Purdue or IU. The weed-out classes at Purdue, in particular, can be wicked for unsuspecting freshmen who realize, four weeks in, that what they thought of as “studying”, really wasn’t enough, and frantically struggle to right that ship before it sinks. Many don’t. The fact you’re in Honors helps tremendously because you’ll be surrounded by other kids who’s support your doing 6 hours of work every day of the week (vs. many freshmen who think the first couple weeks are just go to class and have fun), and Honors students tend to do better in honors classes because the interactive nature of the classes suit them better.
ND will have more prestige outside of Indiana, so that, if you decide (like many, many freshmen) that you’d rather do something else than medicine, you’d still be ensured you have a very strong alumni network and will be considered anywhere in the country. The facilities are likely better kept up/with faster replacement, there will be more resources to support you, better advising, etc.
Would your parents’ money be wasted if you attended ND? No. But only your family can decide if the difference is “worth it”.

9

Since we know a bunch of kids at ND, I would just add, that the Catholicism affects residential and community life in a way which is quite different from peer schools. Many love it, some others accept it as a trade-off for the other many benefits of ND.

Only single sex dorms, parietals (no member of the opposite sex in your room after certain hours), being caught having sex is grounds for being kicked off campus (though we hear from our kid’s friends that it is not often enforced, it does lead to guilt and anxiety). ND only recently allowed a student GLBT group to be recognized, under the guidance of the administration, and the pro-life march in Washington is a major campus event.

10

You need a strong GPA. Having a “name” school won’t make up for that. You might want to choose a school where you are one of the stronger students, in other words, not competing with all superstars for those As.

11

If you want to go pre-med then think about:

  1. The cheapest reasonable college so you/your parents can use the money for med school
  2. The college needs to prepare you for MCATs but still allow you to get a good GPA
  3. Access to volunteering opportunities (e.g., near a hospital)
  4. Success in graduates getting into med school
  5. Options if you don’t go to med school
12

Given that you are pre-med, Indiana U Honors. seems to be the clear choice. You should have a great college experience, be surrounded by plenty of smart kids, and have an opportunity to succeed. If, however, you are less sure about med school, and your parents are fine spending the money, you may want to consider the other schools you mentioned. But even then, IU may make the most sense.

13

Remember that a lot of kids who think they are going to med school change their minds in college. Don’t lock your future career down as a HS senior. Life happens. Be prepared for your likes and career plans to change.

14

MYOS1634 - while I don’t know that Chicago would be the OP’s choice, I don’t think your statement is correct. I have known plenty of deferred students who ultimately got into and attended top colleges who did extremely well. I don’t know how you came up with your 20% number, but being deferred doesn’t mean that much in my judgment. It means you’re in the ballpark and it might mean that you had very high stats, but for other reasons (lack of hooks, ECs slightly weaker etc.) you didn’t get in in the EA process.

15

On your list, Chicago > NW> ND > IU > Purdue. I agree with @bopper, med school is extremely expensive and you would be better off saving $100K in tuition. If you change your mind and a different type of grad school is in your future, at least you will be able to afford it with the savings. Both Chicago and NW are small schools so you won’t have the large school social and sports experience like at IU, ND, or Purdue but they have their own charms. Best to revisit in April when you have your final FA offers. If Chicago or NW are close I’d go there.

16

When you do have all the aid packages, run the numbers here: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/awardletteradvanced.phtml

17

@midatlmom:
I have no doubt that deferred students can do well - but not if they’re in a super competitive major like Biology at UChic and surrounded by supercompetitive students like UChic’s premeds. (There’s even a special bio class for kids who took AP bio and scored a 5. It’s brutal.)
In order to maintain a med school worthy GPA, premeds need to be roughly in the top 20% of every class they take, especially gen eds + premed pre-reqs (there are some exceptions, such as Brown, premed paradise where the average GPA is 3.6). They have very little leeway (they may be top 25% for some, but they probably have to offset that in other ways). A student who was deferred is not top 20% (or even top 25%) among all applicants and will be surrounded by very competitive premeds. Premeds are ferocious about their GPA (they have to) and all the students at UChic will be very competitive. Therefore, UChic may well be OP’s first choice but I don’t see how it’s possible to combine UChic and premed. It’s certainly not wise to expect to be at the top of the class in a super competitive major and surrounded by students who will necessarily be better prepared.

18

I think you have to consider what your priority is for your undergrad:

If your #1 priority is getting into med school, go for IU (Honors) and save money, as most everyone has said.
If your priority is getting the most out of your undergrad experience, and you want a very challenging intellectual environment with ultra smart students that will push you to your limits but also grow you - go to UChicago.

19

You know, MYOS, I’ve been involved with college admissions for many years (I don’t know your background), and I have go say that I don’t think you understand deferrals very well. Because Chicago practices holistic admissions, it is entirely possible that some deferred students are extremely strong academically, but don’t have that amorphous extracurricular “wow” factor that U Chicago might be looking for. Moreover, I personally know many deferred students who are indistinguishable from accepted students or, in some cases, are even stronger academically than students who have been accepted. Plus, you’re assuming that Chicago is somehow infallible and can figure out who is going to do better academically - given the number of “hooked” applicants who get in EA, that is also I believe an incorrect assumption. It would be interesting if students were able to be ranked in the way you suggest, but that’s just not the case. Many of the deferred students at U Chicago or any other top school have the same academic statistics as many of the accepted students.

20

You have such wonderful choices that you can’t go wrong. However, if money is no object, then I would pick Notre Dame, just because it’s Notre Dame. That said, Purdue and IU would give you the full college experience, but the downside would be larger classes and less personal attention.