Decision time - CWRU vs NCSU ?

Finally NCSU have given us the aid decision, and its very good. OOP expenses at NSCU will
be 8k ( less if we get work study ) while at Case it will be 13k.

I have read plenty on the matter, but would just like to know if anyone has an opinion
on which place will be better ( Mechanical Engineering ). My son has done his schooling
outside the States, and it will not be possible for us to do a visit to compare campuses
and the like.

The 5k extra expense at Case is a factor, of course. So is the prospect
of cold winters and higher workload at Case. Otoh, Case seems a smaller, more intimate
and probably geekier setting, and we do get lots of emails from Case all the time, so
it looks like they are really wanting him to attend and going out of the way to send
all kinds of helpful information. NCSU otoh did not even send an email alerting us
to the fact that they have updated the aid information on their portal.

Also, it seems NCSU has better dorms and food, which is a factor in his mind :slight_smile:
Better campus, school spirit, and the whole Americana experience, possibly,
with football and the like. After all, there is a lot more to life than studying.

If anyone knows a bit about both the places, please advise!
Thanks.

I am a Case parent of a senior in physics. Its been a very good four year experience.

I don’t know much about Raleigh or NC State, except maybe the school is a little bit overshadowed by the much more highly ranked Duke U and U of NC Chapel Hill, all three schools are well known though. Research Triangle Park in NC does have a good high tech job base.

Case Western Reserve U is the crown jewel in Ohio. Even Ohio State grads may bow down to CWRU. ! Its always called the best school in Ohio, and gets a high national rank in the USA, 37th in nation, using US News and World ranking methodology.

Akron/Cleveland is also a good place to get a co op position and a lot of medical research with the Cleveland Clinic, one of the best heart, epilepsy, and other medical research centers in the world. There is also a growing software sector and financial sector. Manufacturing jobs are plentiful in Ohio and nearby Indiana. Akron, OH has been a center for tire research for decades, thus Case Westerns’ fine polymer sciences department.

Cleveland has plenty of good food options, and most Case students do get off the big meal plan after one year, and cook with friends. Case juniors and seniors often live in suites at East 115th are pretty well set up and well located but not fancy in any way. Four students share a bathroom and kitchen and each have their own mid sized bedroom. Some students walk to LIttle Italy, which is a block from South Campus, to eat Italian food, and not just pizza, pretty good options. Presti’s bakery is fantastic too. The Coventry neighborhood is close enough for some Asian food options too.

Case has a quirky culture, and not a lot of football culture, but many students are following basketball and baseball in Cleveland, not the school but the professional teams, the Caveliers and Indians. Its pretty exciting wins for Cleveland teams lately.

Case has a mellow fraternity scene, with some fraternities being focused on service. Some are more socially oriented.

As far as academics, ThinkBox is a center for innovation:
http://thinkbox.case.edu/

Mechanical Engineering at CWRU has a lot of faculty who are expert in tissue engineering, artificial joints,
and other bio related mechanical engineering, as well as aerospace experts.

NASA Glenn is a short train ride from CWRU, and the aerospace focus at CWRU is well known. Space X is a co op option for Mechanical/Aerospace engineering majors.

Weather: Cleveland is like a cross between Seattle for rain and Boston for cold but the fall is very nice.
Schools closes for cold about once in ten years. There is not as much snow in Cleveland as there is in Ann Arbor, Boston, or Upstate New York. Summers are very pleasant, should your student choose to stay in Cleveland. Winters are not as snowy as Boston, but a tad more rain. Lake Erie proximity means that there is a bit of a warm spell every day, at dinner time, called Lake Effect.

To add to above many upperclassmen live off campus and share a house for a fraction of the cost. Upperclassmen dorms are great though some students like to rent on the south side which is what my S will be doing.

Oh and there are some alumni scholarships that may be possible for upperclassmen. S was nominated and got one. It’s above 3.0 but don’t remember exactly. I’ll link info later when I can. Also not too hard to get above 3.0.

Getting an on campus job is easy and he probably would be interested in working at thinkbox which is incredible. That is a nice experience to put on resume when looking at coops.

@Coloradomama - Goodness gracious - you are a treasure trove of information, thanks so much. This forum is so great because of people like you.

I’ll weigh in, because my DS faced the same decision two years ago. He’s now happily settled at Case, ME major, has a great internship lined up in Cleveland this summer and plans to live with friends off campus next school year. But he found a lot attractive about State, too.

^^ By and large I agree with what the above posters said. And, OP, I think you have a really good grasp on the differences between the two schools. Short answer, you really can’t go wrong – neither one is better – but it’s important to understand the cultural/atmospheric differences and think where your kid would thrive best.

My DS appreciated being “wooed” by Case; the merit money they gave made it clear he was wanted. And the personal touch with admissions was appreciated. The feeling he got from State was more “OK, come if you like,” with no real acknowledgment of his accomplishments–beyond just the fact of acceptance! It’s a reflection of the relative sizes of the institutions and the public/private difference.

State has brand-new, state-of-the-art, state-funded engineering facilities and a really eye-popping high-tech library. It’s very impressive. On the flip side, there is also a competition for resources-- so many people jostling for the same thing! And Case has ThinkBox, which is also amazing and impressive! Some of the labs are a bit dated, though, my DS has reported.

At State, you’re admitted to engineering but not to a specific major, so you have to pass some hurdles (GPA) and compete for a place in the specific major you want. Not really a problem if your grades are good. At Case you’re admitted to the university as a whole and can choose any major you wish, and switch with minimal red tape.

Will expand on what @Coloradomama said about State being overshadowed by UNC and Duke. I wouldn’t say it’s overshadowed AT ALL. While Duke has a very small and super-selective engineering school that occupies one building, State is “the” publicly funded engineering school for NC. There is a whole huge section of the huge campus that’s devoted to engineering/tech/computers, and the state has poured resources into it. And while UNC-Chapel Hill is the state flagship university, it doesn’t emphasize engineering at all; if you want to be an engineer and stay in state, State is the place! Its reputation in the region is huge.

My DS liked the engineering/techy vibe at State, but he observed that it’s also the state’s center for veterinary medicine and agriculture, so it draws a lot of what he thought of as “country people,” too. Nothing wrong with that, but it wasn’t his thing. Also the rah-rah school spirit is strong there. (Football and basketball both popular.) I will note that engineers generally live together on the engineering campus for first year-- unless they’re in the honors college, which has its own housing.

He felt more drawn to the geekiness/quirkiness of Case. Visiting there, he felt he’d found “his people.” That’s been borne out in the strong and supportive friendships he has made; his whole freshman suite decided to live together again second year. Also there are a lot of collaborative projects in ME where he’s been able to bond with his team. (He works hard, no doubt about it, but he has time to play a D III sport with two practices a week + travel on weekends. He also enjoys the cultural offerings of the Uptown area, including the symphony and art museum; there are similar things in Raleigh, but at Case they’re in walking distance from campus. Cleveland is definitely the better “foodie” town.)

Raleigh is more white-bread American, if I may be blunt, while Cleveland is more gritty. He likes the gritty but also has to be careful about where in Cleveland he goes, and when. Much better public transport in Cleveland, and Case students have “free” (i.e. paid with their student fees) access to the RTA.

Both places have GREAT career fairs and internship opportunities and campus job opportunities. I wouldn’t put one above the other. @Coloradomama is right on about Case; I’ll add that State has access to Research Triangle Park, a center of high-tech jobs for the south. (Oh, she did say that, didn’t she!-- she knows her stuff. :slight_smile: )

Carolina weather wins, hands down, except that my southern boy was excited about seeing snow and experiencing a new climate. There is lots of cold cold rain in Cleveland, raw windy days. Carolina winters are mild; summer heat and humidity can be brutal, but your DS may not be in school in summer! And there’s AC everywhere.

Agree with @SweetTea about the alumni scholarships. They are plentiful and will help defray costs for the last two years at Case.

I could go on and on. Heck, I have gone on and on! I’ll be glad to answer more questions here or via PM. Best of luck to you and your DS in deciding between two really excellent options.

@jollymama - I must repeat what I said above! Thanks so much for all the info, you are making it really difficult to make a choice, though. Bluntly put, money is a big thing with me, but I always liked Case, and it is a case (pardon the pun) of 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Son wants to go to NCSU, for some reason, even before he got any offer from there. Never thought they would give any money, but now that they have, I am in a quandary.

I will consider everything and ultimately make a decision, but that may not be binding on him! And I dont believe in dictating. My only demand is that he pay me back for my investment, so if it is a few dollars extra, its no sweat off my back, I guess.

Thanks again.

Will you have to take loans for him at either school?

I personally will not. He has been offered Stafford and Perkins at NCSU, and only Stafford at Case.

At Case, he will sustain about 6k a year in loans, and 8k in NCSU.
At Case, I will have to shell out about 5k more per year from my pocket.

Note that Perkins will be discontinued either this Fall or next year.

It really depends:
does he want warmer weather, a large “rah rah” school?
or
a vibrant urban environment with more “geeky”/serious students and more personalized learning conditions?

He can’t choose wrong, both are great. :slight_smile:

Obviously we love CWRU, but both programs are ABET accredited so you really can’t go wrong.
I think another thing might be: Where does he want to end up after he graduates? Obviously you can apply to jobs anywhere, but there will be more companies near the school that recruit.

Perkins will be discontinued for new students, afaik. Existing Perkins grants will remain valid till graduation.

Yes, I am not sure - I fully empathise with your sentiments. I myself would have chosen Case, I love gritty places - heck, I love Gary and Camden and prefer them to Fairfax and Charlotte. But the money is a deal breaker, I guess, combined with his clear preference for a warmer weather and Americana.

We just confirmed and paid our enrolment deposit at NCSU. At the back of my mind there is this niggling feeling but I need to forget about it. Its his life from here on, and I have other things to do.

Thanks and I really appreciate your feedback.

Congratulations !
Can you explain your child’s thought process to help future students in a similar position?

@sidatom Its almost like buyers remorse, to pay a college a deposit, we find. That “worry” feeling went away
about six weeks into my son’s freshman year for me! Good luck to your son at North Carolina State. The city of Raleigh will be fun to explore I bet.

@MYOS1634 -

Hi, sorry for the late reply, haven’t visited these forums in a while. I am not sure how to answer, since I am not entirely privy to his thoughts. Mostly, it was a question of the right balance between costs, location and program. Actually, a few things have happened in the meantime - he was offered a OOS waiver at UNM which makes it far cheaper than NCSU. So now we have decided that he will visit both places and then we will take a final decision.

@Coloradomama - thanks!

How much is 5k a year to you? I think that’s probably a big part of your answer.

Incidentals, from toothpaste to pizza often run a bit more in an urban area too.

Our tour guide at Case talked about dumping $80 on an evening out like it was the usual amount (rather than a social budget for a month, then boasted about keeping a reserved book out of the library for a semester since the late fine was less than buying a book. Turned us both a little sour on Case. (THIS was their ambassador? Seriously? )

That notwithstanding, they’re both decent schools. Good problem to have.

@50N40W Did your tour guide happen to be a very short Jewish guy with red hair?

@50N40W thats really a shame, what that CWRU tour guide said, as I do not find the CWRU students to
be wealthy as students in other areas of the country. A lot of middle class kids on merit based scholarships are going to Case Western. And they don’t steal books from the library. All my son’s friends are on merit awards or they are going to CWRU for free because their fathers are professors. Its a school with some really good students who work hard and going out does not cost most students $80 unless they are going to Playhouse Square, or to an expensive restaurant in LIttle Italy. I have spent that much on dinner for two in Cleveland, but I am an adult not a student. And, the meal was really good, a nice treat for my son and his friends.

@50N40W Also, I’m a student here and the most I’ve ever spent on a night out was just under $20, and that was a one time dinner at a nice restaurant for a friend’s birthday.

Most university events are free, and maybe $5 if it’s part of a fundraiser. If you want to parties, the most I’ve ever heard of anyone being charged was $5, and that’s only if you want to drink.

And I can corroborate @Coloradomama 's statement - I know that I was only able to come to Case due to merit scholarships. One of my good friends was going to go to Northwestern, but came to Case for financial reasons. There’s a bunch of other cases like this, so it’s not like the student body is like your tour guide. Most of us are the typical college student - strapped for cash and looking for free stuff/ bargains. The only large population that is swimming in cash is a good portion of the Chinese international students. I’ve seen more of them in Porches, Ferraris, and Maserati than US students in cars.

@SoCcErTrAcK2016 : No.
The whole experience was weird. We heard about beating OSU in football five times, and as we walked past the apple tree supposedly descended from Newton’s, a student en route to class somewhere veered in front of us, pulled a (green) apple off the tree and bit into it.
The presentation was too slick, with one of the admin officers saying “we don’t superscore SAT results” then adding - in a stage whisper - " but we really do."
Well which is it? What other policies are of convenient enforcement? I’m an engineer and that kind of doublespeak makes my blood boil. I said nothing, but was picking up a similar vibe from DD. There was more, but these were the highlights.
When we arrived, all they needed to do was close the deal. Three hours later they were in fifth or sixth place, and eventually received a polite note that their services would not be required.

I’m sure it’s a really good school, and we just had an unusually dismal visit.