Decisions: Physics (Caltech) vs. Computer Science (CMU)

College Majors Science Majors
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My son has wanted to go into physics for a long time, but he’s also quite good naturally at computer science. So, his activities/honors/advanced classes read as about 45% science/physics/math and 45% CS with a dusting of other things.

Now his decision in the next month is (excluding several acceptances):

– Caltech (he’d probably major in physics, but he doesn’t need to declare for a year)
– CMU School of Computer Science (hard to change majors, and physics is a step “down” from CS at CMU)
– UC Berkeley, College of L&S (with Regents, which gives class signup & housing priority; physics and CS both in L&S)
– UCSB College of Creative Studies in Physics (CCS gives similar priorities)

Obviously, there are social aspects to Caltech vs. CMU that he’ll need to assess this month at accepted student visits.

It’s a great choice to have to make. But, given his top 2 acceptances, he now figures that to some extent he needs to decide what he wants to do with his life this month. That’s probably overstating it, but he feels like if he ends up in computer science, he won’t want to have thrown away CMU as an opportunity. And, if he ends up in physics, he’d rather do that at Caltech (or one of the UCs) over CMU. That wasn’t really his expectation going into acceptance season, since CMU is the only place where he applied as a CS major first. For all other colleges, CS was the 2nd major choice after physics.

His interests within physics include: hands-on research, astrophysics, exoplanets, materials science, and computational physics.

His interests within CS include: AI, robotics, computer vision, computability, CS theory, and cybersecurity.

I can add more details about his pro/con lists and priorities, but I should probably keep this initial post somewhat short.

TL;DR; We are working on pro/con lists for these colleges and for physics vs. CS, but would like to hear thoughts from others.

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Lucky boy to have so many great options!

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@Ynotgo, the pros/cons list is smart, as is the site visits. I don’t really know anything about CM’s culture, only that Caltech is a pretty serious place for serious studies. But the Caltech location is also primo for what he’d eventually want to do, I think. I guess it’s hard, but he needs to really drill down his interests and figure out if he’s pursuing physics or CS. GOod luck!

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Based upon his interests, I think physics is the way to go. Most physics curricula will have a fair amount of computer science involved. If he want to get into astrophysics research, he’ll be doing A LOT of programming. Further, he can still get into AI and cyber security with a degree in physics- it’ll just require a few extra electives. Most jobs in cyber don’t even require a CS degree; it’s more about the certifications someone has (which he can take either at school or on the side- little to no CS experience required).

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Thanks @NHuffer – good points!

@xraymancs As a physics professor, do you have any thoughts on current career prospects for physics?

My DH has a physics PhD, but has always been in industry. It worked well for him because he got a lot of nano-instrumentation design experience as part of his PhD, and that field has worked well for him. But, he recently gave DS “the talk” about how physics is very competitive at the post-doc and professorship stages.

I don’t think DH wants to talk DS out of physics, but it did seem to DS that he was being told that CS was the easier career path (which is probably true).

DS says that his reason for liking physics is that it is more “real and fundamental” than CS.

I also think he enjoys the type of math done in physics. He sat in on a physics class at UCSB CCS where they covered the derivation of Maxwell’s equations (the “and there was light” lecture) and loved that. He worked his way though at least part of the derivation for fun afterward, and said what a pleasure it was to do math without numbers. (That’s not to say that he doesn’t also enjoy the discrete math, logic, and linear alg that are more important to CS.)

He likes CS perhaps mainly because it generally comes easily to him, so accomplishments are reinforcing.

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A Physicist can easily become a computer scientist. It is not easy other way round. He is probably right - Physics is more “real and fundamental” than Computer Science. What about UCB ? DD has admission to UCB (L&S, CS).

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@Ynotgo – hmm - I think it might make sense to ask him where his passion really lies - he might well have some for CS given his devotion to (and HUGE SUCCESS on) the hacking & CTF competitions - but does he like algorithms too or big data or cyber security – so many ways to go in CS these days!! Some people believe a lot of CS can be learned outside a traditional classroom so no need to make it your major - may depend on what the focus is. Not sure undergrad has to be really focused on a “career path” but would be nice to go somewhere that has the option of combining or minoring in CS / Physics. And what else matters to him about his college experience - maybe spend a bit more time on the top 2-3 campuses - where will he thrive & find “his people”? Sorry I am not more helpful - he is such a great student & will go far no matter what!

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Thanks @grtd2010 and @CA1543!

@grtd2010 UC Berkeley is certainly a great school for both physics and CS. The undergrad class sizes are kind of a minus for him. Even at the upper-division level, many of the physics classes are still large. I haven’t looked at upper division CS classes there. I think he is the kind of kid who would be worried about being lost in a crowd.

@CA1543 Sometimes it is difficult to tell where a kid’s passion lies when they have several!

He likes the cryptography and puzzle solving parts of cybersecurity, but wouldn’t enjoy “being a sysadmin” or the sometimes questionable ethics of gov’t work in that area. He does like the theory parts of CS and is interested in machine intelligence, though he hasn’t yet done anything in that area. He also likes robotics, so yes, lots of areas.

In my experience of watching him, I agree about the traditional CS classroom being partly unnecessary for some people, so that may argue for a school that uses the classroom to teach CS theory. And also argues for the “get a physics degree and take CS courses that interest you on the side” path.

I think he has the option to combine/minor the secondary subject at both schools, so it may come down to CS being “better” at Caltech than physics at CMU.

I’ve tried to tell him that he should feel free to make some of the decision based on where “his people” are and where he fits rather than planning for the distant future. I think that place is Caltech, but I don’t want to tell him that. He likes the idea of the House system, pranking, and interhouse parties. The small size is probably also a good fit, but CMU SCS is a similarly small community.

We need to wait until our visit to CMU to see if there is anything along those lines that he loves equally. He says there is a group at CMU called the “KGB” (not that one) that would be a good fit for him. And, he would certainly join the PPP hacking group at CMU.

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Congrats, all good options.
I think you should not rule out the benefits of the Regents such as having a faculty sponsor and the alumni network. Plus UCB has the advantage of being in silicon valley. It helps with finding internships, not that its difficult to get one being in CMU or Caltech. Also,the bay area has a lot of meet ups where people get to meet and discuss the latest technology and make contacts.

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@Ynotgo - In my experience, PhDs in physics have no trouble finding jobs. The postdoc and faculty route is not the most typical career path, of course. That is a long road and is not particularly well compensated. Many end up in the financial arena or developing software. Others work in technical (including engineering) jobs in large companies or startups.

In fact, even physics majors with a BS or an MS can usually find quite good jobs in a technical field. Many physics programs these days include a significant amount of computing and so these students are well prepared for seeking employment. The advantage that a physics major has is the understanding of fundamental physical laws. Most CS majors don’t have a lot of science background but more mathematics.

Your DS needs to start with a major he likes. CS and Physics will both lead to good jobs and it is relatively easy to go from a BS in physics to a MS in CS if he so chooses. Furthermore, he can likely change majors if he starts in physics and then realizes that CS is more to his liking. My S1 started in physics and as a junior changed to biology. His physics background has come in very handy as he ended up doing a biomechanics related PhD and now postdoc. He has a much better grasp of dynamics and fluid mechanics than he would have had without the physics background.

My own experience has taken me close to CS also. I took lots of extra CS courses as an undergraduate at UIUC and these have helped me in my career when developing data acquisition and control systems for the x-ray beamlines I have built over the years.

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I just wanted to thank folks for their input.

He decided that Caltech is a better fit for him personally. In addition, it gives him a year of going through their multi-subject core to decide on major(s) and a lot of flexibility in the courses he takes. He’s starting out aimed at physics, though they don’t declare until the end of freshman year.