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<p>Yes, you did say that more than once and I heard it.</p>
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<p>This happens all the time on CC. We’re all armchair quarterbacks.</p>
<p>*Okay, I’ll give my ideal for financial organization. *</p>
<p>Ideally, many alternate ways will work, but when a crisis happens, then there is the problem.</p>
<p>When everyone keeps things separately, then what happens if one spouse becomes sick or disabled? </p>
<p>or what happens if a child is sick and one parent must stop working to care for that child? </p>
<p>Or what happens if one spouse earns a lot more than the other spouse? Is one spouse supposed to be able to indulge himself with luxurious purchases, while the other must drive a 20 year old car?</p>
<p>If one person is a saver and the other is a spendthrift, there are ways to handle that without keeping everything separate - unless the spendthrift is dishonest and will be sneaky. Then that’s a whole 'nuther issue. LOL</p>
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<p>*Didn’t I just say that after all of the other bills in the household are paid for, I don’t have enough money leftover to pay for daycare? So when she got a full-time job that supplemental income she provided paid for the daycare expenses. What is wrong with that? </p>
<p>My wife prefers looking at things on a monthly basis. She would rather make a minimum payment on a credit card so she could have more money to buy a new cell phone.*</p>
<p>There are a few different issues here. If your wife’s income won’t pay for her loans and the childcare, then why is she working? The point I was making is that if the loans are solely HER responsibility (which I don’t think they are), then the childcare costs can’t be solely her responsibility. </p>
<p>If she’s choosing to spend money on luxuries instead of debt, then THAT is the issue to address. The solution is not…That’s her debt, and I’ll just buy the house in my name…etc…</p>
<p>Your wife needs some adult financial advice - either from some adult she trusts or from a 3rd party. She can’t have it both ways…of wanting the adult-life of marriage and baby, but not responsibilites towards money. That way of living is like living in two worlds…an adult world (baby/marriage) and child world (not concerned about financial future.).</p>
<p>You both need to sit down with either a trusted adult (with some financial sense) or a financial planner who will come up with a budget for you both. Your wife will have to “man up” and accept that debt needs to be paid first - before new cell phones, etc.</p>
<p>There seems to be some disconnect going on here. Believe me or don’t but when we had young kids I was in justinmeche’s shoes, honest. Daycare is very expensive. We were managing but there wasn’t anything extra and I didn’t have student loans or any extra medical expenses. We weren’t living extravagently, but we do live in an area with a high cost of living.</p>
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<p>Because she can’t afford not to work. She can’t afford to work and she can’t afford not to work, it’s a no win situation.</p>
<p>WildwoodII, your financial model is fine if there is more than enough money to run the household. That isn’t necessarily the case and certainly isn’t the case in this situation. It also sounds like you didn’t have to save for your kid’s college educations which is a big expense you were lucky not to have.</p>
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<p>Actually, the business failure did lead to a crisis, and what has saved us (and our marriage) was my insistence on separate assets. When things were flush, of course I benefitted from a higher life-style, my husband certainly never begrudged any of my spending from our joint account (most of it went to benefit our Ds anyways). By the same token, I couldn’t really object to H’s extravagance, when he bought a sports car or dressed himself in the finest of tailor-made suits. He gave me gifts of nice things too, but I personally would have preferred it go into savings. I sometimes made my feelings known, but I basically felt he earned that money and was entitled to spend it how he saw fit. I could think this way precisely because I knew I had control over the way my money was spent. </p>
<p>Now, post-crisis, guess who is the main contributor to family finances, and believe me, I dominate in the decisions as to how our greatly reduced wealth is spent. My priorities are my kids’ college in the U.S. (although they could go to school cheaply in the EU), and while he understands that, I don’t think it would have been possible had I not maintained control. </p>
<p>As the OP’s situation indicates, different individuals in a marriage may have very different spending priorities. I do think it is okay for each to have to take some responsibility for their spending choices based on their own contribution to the finances.</p>
<p>But again, every couple is a world in itself, and what is right for some is not for others.</p>
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Yes, we have turned your “simple question” into a marraige question, because you are looking for an “accounting” (not pay wife’s college loan) answer to a marital responsibility (“her loan” instead of “our loan”). You talk about her looking at money “month to month” while I take it that you are not. This is another clue that the answer to the financial pinch is a marital answer. If she decides to spend “her” money on a cell phone instead of making a student loan payment and ends up in default, the result is a marital issue - given that the marital assets (and debts) are considered equally owned. Her actions DO impact your financial life. And although you may not be your brother’s keeper, you are your wife’s keeper.</p>
<p>You have had some good advice. Find a financial planner. Watch a few episodes of Suze Orman. You seem to understand the concept of good and bad debt (although many student loans are NOT considered good debt, as much of that money is used to support a playboy lifestyle while in college). </p>
<p>You also need to understand that there are different priorities in paying down debt. Student debt is in a special class that goes with IRS debt that never goes away (including interest and penalties) except under the most dire of circumstances, despite the commercials that would convince you otherwise.</p>
<p>Most medical debt OTOH, especially that from catastrophic events, generally does not collect interest (unless you put it on a credit card). In the event that your finances suddenly turned for the worse, that would be the first debt you should stop servicing, as it doesn’t grow and is unsecured. However, paying the hospital comes before many things that most people spend money on.</p>
<p>Bottom line is that you cannot afford just look the other way if your wife decides to default on student debt, despite any effort you make to separate assets and income. It is a marital issue that will lead to more financial (and marital) issues despite your best efforts. </p>
<p>I’ll tell you about a fellow I used to work with a few years back. He contracted at the place I work at. Had a wife and 2 daughters. They made a choice for her to stay home with the kids when they were young. He was the breadwinner and put together the house downpayment and paid the bills. Along the way (in the girls teenage years), she developed either/both a drug habit and/or mental illness. He was a contractor on the road 5 days a week and could not be home to deal with the insanity. She ended up tearing up the house, wrecking multiple cars and as the kids were finishing HS, multiple trips to jail. Ultimately, he paid to fix the house, the cars, and for 3 years of 2 sets of lawyers to get the divorce. By the time things were done, he figured they had blown through a couple hundred thousand and were literally left with nothing but the used cars they drove.</p>
<p>And to boot, he ended up paying 5 years of rehabilitative alimony.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that your wife has a serious problem, but more that you will pay the price of the actions of your wife no matter how you view the responsibility for the finances. Perhaps a more joint view of asset and cash flow management (from both sides) recognizing and jointly prioritizing actions of both parties would serve to keep you both from digging yourselves a very big hole that will ultimately harm your marraige worse.</p>
<p>Not trying to be a hardnose, but these are experiences you would much rather learn from others than on your own.</p>
<p>Well said, as usual, goaliedad.</p>
<p>I’m also a 25 year veteran of marriage who started out with nothing. I agree with the posters here who describe very effectively why the yours and mine philosophy doesn’t work well, particularly when there is limited money.</p>
<p>When there’s limited income, regardless of who is bringing it in, the two of you <em>together</em> are going to have to come up with a plan that you can agree on to ensure the future of your family. You may have to consider options that you never thought you would, such as working a second job until those additional loans are paid. That’s what we did. </p>
<p>You think as a young person that you’ll graduate from college, get a good job and be able to live the same lifestyle that your parents provided to you growing up. Come to find out, that doesn’t happen overnight.</p>
<p>In marriage and in life, you do what you have to do to get where you want to be. Good luck to you and your family.</p>
<p>I was going to respond earlier but the folks here did a great job.</p>
<p>One thing that I noticed was the lack of the use of “our” in the OP’s writing. It felt like the foot out the door thing.</p>
<p>When DH and I got married 26 years ago (at the tender age of 22), we each had about $7k in student loan debt. While I wasn’t legally responsible for his loans, and he not for mine, we paid them off together. Ditto his $45k in grad school loans which I did not (and did not need to) cosign, which he incurred after we had been married several years, and during which time we lived on my (piddly) income so we didn’t have to borrow more. </p>
<p>We <em>both</em> paid off said loans out of joint income while having two kids in rapid succession and $20k/year in day care expenses. Day care cost more than I made the first two years I was back at work after kids. Why do it? 1) To preserve my job viability and earnings potential for the future, when the kids wouldn’t need day care, but would need my income to attend college. 2) To have an income and access to benefits should my husband lose his job.</p>
<p>We were 37 and the kids were in elementary school before we bought our first house – AFTER the student loans were paid off. We didn’t have parents or other resources for a down payment. Between student loans, rent and daycare, it took a LOOOOONNNNGGGG time to save enough for a down payment – this was back when lenders required 10-20% down plus closing costs in the bank, so it amounted to real money. We were experts at frugality. Still are, esp. with two in college starting this fall.</p>
<p>I know some couples set up separate accounts (and there are times when I wish we had done the same, at least for a small personal account), but I think it’s the mindset that’s important here – you and your wife are a TEAM. Work together. Get the albatross off your backs. Pay the loans. You really don’t want to be playing the yours vs. mine game should you divorce and the issue is child custody. </p>
<p>You also don’t want these loans hanging over your heads should, G-d forbid, something serious happen to one of you down the road. Nobody expects to get cancer in their early 40s. But it happens. It happened to me. I will also put in my plug for you and your wife getting term life insurance now, while you are young and healthy and the coverage is cheap, in a sufficient amount to replace either of your incomes and provide for college expenses for your kid(s). If something happens to your wife, you’ll need day care/support services. If something happens to you, she’ll need that income as a cushion so she can be there for the kids and keep the house.</p>
<p>I also look at educational debt (within reason) differently than consumer debt: your wife’s education benefits you and your family. Not just in $$$$ terms, either. I’d have a bigger issue marrying someone who was profligate about spending $$ he didn’t have on junk he didn’t need vs. someone who borrowed $$ as an investment in education that would have a decent long-term return.</p>
<p>A personal bone to pick: it really irks me when people refer to day care expenses as the mother’s responsibility or as coming out of <em>her</em> paycheck. They’re your kids, too.</p>
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<p>Excellent point. Much more than any one philosophy of how to handle money, I believe it is the lack of agreement on how to handle the money that becomes a serious problem. </p>
<p>Wildwood11 and I handle money in our marriages two completely different ways. Yet it’s worked for both of us because of the clarity about styles and what it takes to keep money from becoming a dividing force. Thank you for sharing that, Wildwood11, it was very interesting to read.</p>
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<p>So, it would seem that the different styles are really the issue and not the college loan, daycare and other bills. </p>
<p>This is going sound a little nuts after all this discussion about money but I really recommend seeing a marriage therapist. A therapist can help you negotiate out a balance between the two that both of you can live with. </p>
<p>Money issues are tough. Money is just paper yet there is so much emotion and symbolism tied up in how it is used. </p>
<p>Just one more thing, because you are a young family. Please be sure to carry life and disability insurance on both adults. Your child’s needs are obvious and people typically think of the primary income earner but you also need to figure out how much it would cost to pay someone to do all of the childcare, housework and so on that the at-home or second parent does.</p>
<p>The OP asked a simple question - Am I <em>legally</em> responsible for my wife’s student loans? He did not ask for marriage counseling advice, but that is about all that he has been given. Because he wants legal advice, I can tell him that he needs to see a lawyer to answer his question because it will somewhat depend on what state he resides in. I know of no federal law which would make him liable, but state laws are different. Contrary to what several posters have said, very few states (about six or so and almost all in the far west) have community property laws and even community property laws would not necessarily make community property liable for a non-community (pre-marital) debt. One of the posters mentioned that if his portion of a tax refund is seized that he can file what is called an “injured spouse” exemption with the IRS and thereby get his portion of the refund. That is correct, but I am not sure about how to go about it. Lastly, it is almost impossible to discharge student loans in any type of bankruptcy, so that is not a solution for the wife.</p>
<p>I have federal student loans, as did my late husband.</p>
<p>We were given the option at one point to consolidate the loans. It was made clear in the paperwork that the loans would no longer be individually liable, but jointly liable. We did not consolidate for that reason - late husband had cancer and I was protecting myself and our four children.</p>
<p>When he died, his loan was forgiven. This is a function of federal student loans - it has nothing to do with any state law.</p>
<p>So I stand by what I originally said. If she were to default, it would be her default. But it would affect joint credit - and perhaps joint assets. And the only way out of a student loan is death of the borrower. They are exempt from bankruptcy.</p>
<p>even community property laws would not necessarily make community property liable for a non-community (pre-marital) debt.</p>
<p>The reference that I made was in regards to if the wife refinanced those loans after she got married. If she were to do that, the debt would become a joint responsibility. </p>
<p>There are 9 community property states, and there are other states who aren’t community property states, but still split debt and assets in similar fashion.</p>
<p>^ Do not mistake the difference between the rights of spouses in divorce and the rights of creditors. I am aware of very few instances (outside of community property) where the debt of one spouse is the <em>legal</em> responsibility of the other and I can think of none where the debt is pre-marital. (So its 9 not “six or so” - that’s still not <em>most</em>.)</p>
<p>I think my wife and I are on the right track now. The problem is that a hole is already dug and now we will spend some years trying to fill it. The main burden for me is the credit card debt. I had been making progress with large payments but then was getting hit hard with car repair bills and medical debt. I ended up having to replace the 15 year old car. I could either pay $300 per month fixing that old car or pay that for a new car with a warranty. Medical debt is good in that in does not earn interest. However, my doctors and hospital will send accounts to collections very quickly if you don’t set up some kind of payment arrangement. I make monthly payment arrangements and never use credit cards for this.</p>
<p>The main financial complaint about my wife was parking tickets. She was not authorized to park in a lot that is close to her job. In 2008 she had $300 in tickets that I paid off. She admitted to those tickets. In 2009 I found out about $1,000+ in more tickets and she has never admitted to being responsible for this. They are tickets from her college campus job. The problem is that the car she used is registered in my name and I am also an alumni, which means the tickets are now tied to my student account. There is still $400 in tickets left. The tickets are computer printouts. No handwritten carbon copies exist and no camera in the area that could prove whether or not the car was there.</p>
<p>^^^^
OP—if you read your above post you may see why the parents here who have been married a long time are commenting on your use of I or me in all of your post. I know you are still young and adapting to marraige but if I heard one of my sons or daughter refer to any money as “theirs alone” I would be concerned that they were not invested in the marraige.</p>
<p>This type of thinking may be necessary in a second marraige where there is personal acquired money that needs to be set aside for children in the first marraige but it sounds a bit unusual for a young man in a first marraige. </p>
<p>I wish you and your wife a lifetime of happiness even with the little ups and downs along the way.</p>
<p>OP, I share your frustration with credit card debt (the rate of interest is ridiculously high) and parking tickets (money thrown down the toilet, as far as I’m concerned)!!</p>
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<p>Goaliedad - this is one of the better posts I have seen on CC. Kudos</p>
<p>justinmeche</p>
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<p>I think your problem is your wife needs counseling. She does not appear to have any financial sense and is more focused on immediate satisfaction than working her way out of debt. You need to meet with someone who can provide you financial advice, learn how to set up a budget and stick to it, and devise a plan to pay off your debt over time</p>
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<p>I also think from what you have posted your wife is a bit immature and you may need help dealing with that. To blatantly run up this much in parking tickets and not admit it to you isn’t right. Combine that with her focus on instatnt gratifiaction (ie a new cell phone) instead of a sound financial plan to address your debt and well, I suggest you need some outside help with this</p>
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The actual problem (as opposed to the student loan) is starting to come to light…</p>
<p>I guess I didn’t look too far back at your posting history to see that your wife is struggling with some growing up. And actually I can understand your frustration with the surprise of these past debts. It almost makes you wonder “what’s next?” </p>
<p>And it is probably that doubt at the back of your mind that makes it that much more difficult to move forward and look for the easy way out.</p>
<p>If it makes you feel any better, I didn’t find out about my wife’s debts until about 2 months before the wedding. Didn’t exactly thrill me, but someplace in the back of my mind I kind of knew there was some debt that wasn’t accounted for. I just had to accept it and move forward, just as at some point you will with your wife’s past debts.</p>
<p>It is becoming clearer with more information that you are indeed doing a good job of being a responsible person while dealing with what really is a marital issue - your wife’s hiding the results of poor judgement (parking tickets) from you.</p>
<p>Hopefully, she is seeing how this is hurting you (plural) going forward and can grow together with you (singular) to live together as a team with shared results. To that end, the “your money” and “my money” mentality probably is more of an obstruction to her growth (“I can be as irresponsible as I can afford to be”) than a help.</p>
<p>Spouses make plenty of mistakes that hurt a marraige. It is how you (plural) address them that will determine if a marraige can move forward without increasing the damages.</p>
<p>I wish you well in working with your wife.</p>