<p>I've not posted here before, but have seen and taken to heart a lot of excellent advice. I'm hoping for a little more. My ds was deferred by his dream school. He had a 2300 SAT (first/only sitting), AP Scholar/Honor, National Merit Semi, 3.9 uw gpa with loads of honors/ap classes, but a couple of B's last year while taking 4 very difficult AP's (he's back on track this semester w/ equally difficult classes). Now he's given up. He submitted apps to 2 more top tier ivies, MIT and Northwestern. He's in at Michigan which he doesn't LOVE or even know much about, but will attend just so he doesn't have to fill out any more apps. Just in case he gets rejected at each of his other schools (I've read enough on this forum to know that is very likely), I want to encourage just one more app to a school that is solid in the sciences, and not bigger than Northwestern. He has said NO WAY to Duke, Hopkins, Cornell and anything west of Chicago or South (he has no real basis for this position, but won't budge). Any suggestions/advice?</p>
<p>Case Western, maybe?</p>
<p>Tell your son to take heart. It sounds as if his deferral was from an Ivy, yes? If so, most apps get rejected, no matter the stats. They haven't said no yet. In the meantime, maybe you can plan to visit UMich after the holidays so S can get a better idea - he may love it. You may want to look into getting a couple apps to some good LACs. Good luck!</p>
<p>Momcubed. I am quoting here a post I made in a forum for students. Please tell your son not to give up. Deferred does not mean rejected, he may get into his dream school in the spring, or, if he just gives it a chance, another school can become his new dream school. Don't let him limit his options. I know this is so hard for him (and for you) right now, but have faith that things will work out.</p>
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Last year my d. applied EA to Yale. She was sure it was her first choice. If Yale accepted her she planned to matriculate immediately and not explore any other schools and what they might have to offer. Well come December she found out she was deferred and like coureur's daughter she was sure that this was an omen of even worse things to come. She was convinced that she would be rejected everywhere that she applied. EA had been her best shot, she told herself, and now her applications were doomed. It was a long winter here and not a whole lot of fun.</p>
<p>Then came spring. . .Yale's deferral became an outright rejection. But that was her only rejection, she was accepted at Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, and a slew of other schools. Brown's acceptance included acceptance into their PLME BA/MD program. Things really did work out for the best for her, she ended up with choices and options that she would never had had if Yale had accepted her early. If December brings unhappy news for any of you, please trust that things really will work out for the best and best of luck to all of you!
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<p>Any reason why he said NO WAY to schools as disparate as Cornell, Duke, and Hopkins? Is his "not LOVE[ing]" Michigan based on any investigation whatsoever?</p>
<p>Anyway . . . Carnegie Mellon? UChicago? (Neither of those may be "safe" enough for this purpose, but Michigan is a pretty great choice.) Try Cornell or Hopkins again depending on whether he wants to be in a city or not.</p>
<p>Thanks for your quick responses. Yes, It was an ivy; yes, we will definitely be making the trip to Michigan soon. It is sad to see someone you love, who worked so very hard, be so discouraged. But the parameters he has set are so typically teen-knee-jerk-response limited (no school smaller than his high school - so no to many excellent lac's), and given the geographical limitations -- well, I don't know enough to be able to identify a school as good as Northwestern and about the same size, which could excite him to do yet another app./ essay. I just remember the very long thread/excellent story of the young man who didn't apply to enough "match" schools and ended up having to take a year off to refocus. He was very lucky, as I recall, and ended up at MIT, I think. I'm just worried that my son is headed down the same path.</p>
<p>None of his reasons have any apparent validity, but based on rumors from upperclassmen -- Cornell - he heard was too competitive in engineering and no fun; Duke, well, I think the lax thing and the fact that it is in the south and he is a liberal vegan; Hopkins - baltimore -- like I said no real reasons, just being a teen. Thanks!</p>
<p>Depending on which science, you and he should quickly look at Brandeis (biosciences, particualrly), Rochester (physics including optics as well as chemistry), Case Western Reserve, Carnegie-Mellon and Washington U of St. Louis. These schools are larger than LACs but smaller than large universities and have excelent academics. Plus with those stats he ought to qualify for merit scholarship aid.</p>
<p>Is Michigan too large for him? Is he into college sports? Has he looked at Wash U?</p>
<p>Thanks for the tips dadofsam, dstark. Michigan is, I think, too big -- I think he's worried about the size -- he's not a huge sports fan -- just a quiet kid. Hasn't looked at Wash U -- haven't heard much about it. I think he wants a school with good grad school placement in hard sciences- its hard to find those stats.</p>
<p>If I were you, I would insist that he visit an LAC that seems to fit his interests. If he then chooses "no LAC," fine, but insist he visit with an open mind. College is nothing like high school, even LACs.</p>
<p>momcubed: try to steer him into NOT picking Michigan just to avoid other apps, one of my D's applied to mega-reaches and the state U...a "top 50" type of school so no small thing, but not the place she thought she would attend. She ended up rejected from the mega-reached (good BWRK but no hooks) and in at a couple of well known privates without great finaid, and in the state school, where she attended, and she was never happy there, it was not a good experience. I tried, but not hard enough in retrospect, to get her to choose some small privates who would give her merit aid and make it affordable for us, but to no avail. Don't make the same mistake, advise him not to settle for Michigan. If he visits and he can be enthusiastic about it, super, but if he cannot attend with enthusiasm, better to take a gap year and find a school he can believe in.</p>
<p>You might look into Michigan's honors college. It can make a large university seem smaller.</p>
<p>I was just going to say that. Your S will surely be invited to Honors, if he hasn't been already. My S was lucky enough to get into his ED school three years ago, but if he hadn't, he too was going to go to UMich, not out of getting it over with but because it was his close second choice. His stats were close to your S's. My S knew he'd fit in fine at Mich, because the Honors program is a really rigorous, close community which cuts the school down in size. Also, for a liberal vegan, Ann ARbor is like heaven on earth.</p>
<p>So, I'd second that he should continue to do other apps, but he should also really take a look at Michigan, it really is a wonderful school (and I'm not just saying that because i went there....:)).</p>
<p>As an alum of the U of M Honors College, I would echo carloyn and garland's posts--it does make the University seem smaller. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, but honestly, I knew people of every interest, personality type and culture in Ann Arbor, and there was something for all.</p>
<p>He really should look at Rochester, CMU and Case. All of these schools are smaller universities with excellent science programs, excellent reputations and good track records for sending kids onto grad school. He would also have an excellent chance of being admitted to all of them.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your great responses. This forum is so kind and it is appreciated. My son applied to UM's engineering program and so I don't think he is eligible for the LSA Honor's Program or Housing. I am hoping we can get more information about some of the residential programs there as he applied knowing its chemE program is excellent. Any way to make UM smaller for him would be great. I am going to suggest the schools each of you mentioned and perhaps a last minute road trip next week. I know this should have been done months ago, but I wanted him to take charge of this process. I guess I was a little too hopeful. Thanks for all your help.</p>
<p>Good luck. I'll add that CMU might be a good choice.</p>
<p>WUSTL can be a good choice. Their admissions are hard to predict, but they take common app (no aditional essays), and have some good merit scholarships. Also, I think their deadline is Jan 15 (at least it used to be).</p>
<p>how about tufts?</p>
<p>Although he would not technically be part of the LSA Honors program as an engineering student at UM, I believe he can take Honors sections of the LSA courses he takes as part of his Engineering curriculum. There is also a 5 year joint program in conjuction with the Business School which is desgnated Honors, requires application after the first year, and leads to a Masters. The residential program is also a size reducer.</p>
<p>FWIW, whether he goes to school with 30,000 kids or 2,000, he's still likely to have the same circle of 25-50 friends, and another 100-200 kids that are friends/acquaintances/people in multiple classes/people in his extracurriculars.</p>