<p>I've been wondering for a while. How do people determine that they come from a competitive high school? </p>
<p>Last night was the College Planning Night at Son's HS. So afterward I approached one of the GCs and asked if LHS is considered competitive. She shrugged and replied, "Well, we're kinda up there, I guess." </p>
<p>I probed a little, trying to find out what "up there" means. </p>
<p>"Well, our SAT scores are the highest in the county. And they're above the state and national average. By 60 points. Plus we've got 21 APs. And we're the only school in the county ranked nationally. If somebody wants to call us competitive, I guess it would be OK."</p>
<p>So is that all there is? An individual opinion determines whehter or not a school is competitive? And if that's the case, why is the label of "I come from a competitive HS" so coveted on CC?</p>
<p>Value is also demonstrated by real estate prices. People will pay more for housing located in a superior school district and others pay private tuition for same.</p>
<p>Well, I guess it is all relative. I think a competitive school has AP offerings, above average standardized test scores, and high percentage of students continuing on to 4 year colleges/universities. That said, I have friend who lives in an inner city. One of her children is an exceptionally talented student and attended the inner city public high school. 30% of the students from that high school do not continue to college after graduation (including 2 year community colleges). Her daughter was challenged every bit as much as my children who attend a top ranked high school. She had the advantage of standing out more and being offered more opportunities at this inner city hs than she would have if she attended our highly ranked high school where one finds more students like her. That inner city hs also offered SAT tutoting, SATII tutoring, and AP tutoring for very low to no cost on Saturdays. My children were not offered those services at our suburban highly ranked hs. I think the difference really comes in when one looks at an average student's education at a highly ranked hs, and an average student at the inner city hs that I described. That is where the high school differences should be closely looked at IMO.</p>
<p>I think percentage of grads going to 4 year college is a good measure; an applicant ranked 50/100 in a school with 99% taking college prep curriculum is VERY different from an applicant ranked 50/100 in a school where 20% usually go on to four year colleges.</p>
<p>Ok, we are considered to be in a very competitive , top high school. Here are the factors used:</p>
<ol>
<li>US News Rankings put them in top 50 in the US</li>
<li>Every AP course offered by the College Board is available at our high school.</li>
<li>Kids are highly encouraged to take courses in their senior year at the local community college for credit.</li>
<li>There are two "magnet" programs available in the highschool that require senior projects.</li>
<li><p>Average SATs are at least 200 points above the national average.</p></li>
<li><p>Over 90%, and I think over 96%, of the grads go on to college.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I believe that it is all relative and subjective. For example, HS that is competitive in Ohio, might not be competitve in comparison to East Coast schools. D's private HS has been always considered very competitive. I believe that it was based on:
1 Scores being higher than national
2 Student travel daily to school from neighboring state
3 Top students accepted to IVYs and other top colleges and very selective programs
4 Students are not allowed to take more than 3 AP's concurrently because of challenging curriculum
5 This one is Ds personal observation: despite absence of AP chemistry at her HS, she has discovered in college that she was much better prepared for college Chem. than most kids in her Freshman college class including those who took AP Chem in HS. It resulted in her being hired by Chem Professor as Instruction Assistant - the job she did not even apply. Another point, the textbook for Freshman college Bio class was the same as her Freshman HS Bio class, which again was not AP. Also, Honors English in college was so much easier than her reguirements in AP English at HS.</p>
<p>Here's how I would define competitive high school: The students are competitive with one another academically. The school offers a challenging curriculum. A substantial portion of the students expect to go to four-year college, and not just to in-state publics. (Not dissing in-state publics at all, but competitive high schools tend to have some layer of kids who are playing in the national market.) SAT/ACT scores support that ambition.</p>
<p>Well, I think it's a lot easier to define what a non-competitive HS is. For the overwhelming majority of people it's the public HS in their home town!</p>
<p>My D's private HS didn't describe itself as competitive, even though it met some of the criteria listed above. But it did send nearly three-quarters of its graduates to out-of-state (and out-of-region) colleges and universities that most parents would describe as "very good" or "excellent."</p>
<p>I did not mention in a previous post that my D.s competitive HS, always has been sending 100% of graduates to 4 year colleges. I would not say that majority go OOS. Based on notion that good number plan to go to Grad. school and they have parents who are willing to contribute financially, OOS might be rejected as too costly option overall. At least in case of my D. who graduated at the top of her class, we never considered OOS. I know few families who specifically mentioned the same. D. received invitations from Harvard and Prinston to apply, but it could be that majority (all?) graduates recieve them.</p>
<p>1) Number of seniors accepted the top ~10 selective colleges + LACs. For example, if Harvard or Stanford takes multiple kids from a single HS each year (as opposed to the Val/Sal), they believe it to be competitive.</p>
<p>2) % of senior class that is NMSF -- most competitive high schools in California have ~5% of the class make NM. (While I'm definitely not a fan of the NM program, it's one indicator of the 'test-happiness' of the HS, which can carry over into the classroom.)</p>
<p>3) In California, each HS has reported statewide test scores ("API") so it's easy to identify the top 100 HS (out of 3,000+).</p>
<p>For Oregon I do it like this. The percentage of 10th grade test scores that exceed the average in reading and math by at least 30 points each. Then schools that send at least six kids a year to the Ivies, UVA and the top 41 LACs with a graduation rate of at least 75 percent. Test scores alone reduce the number competitive high schools to less than twenty.</p>
<p>D's HS (competitve?) definately does not send 75% to top schools, since very few apply to them. D. did not see any reason to go OOS, some others had the same opinion.</p>
<p>Ask if they have a school profile. That gives a number of metrics including AP's, SAT II, grades given, etc. If those are all up there it is competitive. Some local papers give reports that would give you some of that data to compare across.</p>
<p>All these varying answers have led me to conclude that there is no single measure or set of measures that earns a school the lable of "competitve." Also, there is no governing body that decides what is or is not competitive. </p>
<p>There is no cut and dried formula, but a look at high school's scores and college matriculation tells me a lot. There are high schools that send 30% of grads to "ivies plus" and have 2100 average test scores. At one of my children's high school, an 800 math SAT score put you in the top 15%! Those schools are the very competitive and you can work back from there to any school with just over average SAT scores and college placement as somewhat competitive.</p>
<p>I tend to think of competitive high schools as the ones where you have to compete to get in. Schools like Stuyvesant and The Bronx High School of Science in NY or Thomas Jefferson in VA or the Illinois Math and Science Academy. These school have NMS in the dozens. Even the bottom of the class is still high achieving. </p>
<p>My kids go to a good high school - 20+ APs, slightly above average SAT scores, 90% got to college, 75% to four year colleges. But I don't think of it as that competitive, there is a competitive group within the high school however. College placement within that group is pretty good though. For what it's worth our principal describes our school as "comprehensive".</p>
<p>D's high school considers itself competitive. It does send top students to Ivies. The average SAT score is app. 1825. It is a good school overall, but not like what hmom5 just described.</p>
<p>ETA: I was just doing some searching in the forum and came up with this thread. It lists top schools based on SAT scores (M+CR) only. I am not sure it means anything really. Just thought you might like to take a look. </p>
<p>Is an important criteria really about number of APs? The reason I ask is this:</p>
<p>Our D's school, with very selective admissions, where 100% of graduating students go to university, many Ivies and top 10, very high standardized test scores, very motivated students. But the school very consciously and purposefully offers relatively few APs. </p>
<p>Their reasoning being that students are judged in context (not expected to take a lot of APs if not offered at their school) and they want their students not to get wrapped into the college admissions frenzy; to have less stress and more balance.</p>
<p>I think that if you are seeing about 5% NMSF (as bluebayou said), and/or if you are seeing students heading to every Ivy League school every year, you are looking at a competitive high school, even if it has chosen to offer few AP classes.</p>