<p>I've heard that sometimes admission counselors take into consideration during admissions the competitiveness of a high school. Is this true, and if so, in what way? </p>
<p>My school is supposedly well known under this label, but I don't know to what degree this is true.</p>
<p>I'm not aware that admissions actually cares about 'what' highschool you went to unless it was one of those expensive, private boarding schools.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if they know a school has less APs than another, then they surely would not expect a student from that school to take a dozen APs by the time they graduate. Admission officers take into consideration the opportunities that you are given and whether you took full advantage of these opportunities. </p>
<p>A kid in Iowa in some rundown neighborhood school is not expected to have the same rigorous curriculum as a kid in a magnet highschool in Chicago. IMO, admission officers do not 'compare' highschools.</p>
<p>But anyways.. it kind of sucks for people in competitive schools, IMO, because they usually get the short end of the stick. My school is very competitive and it is very difficult to get a 4.0 U/W GPA unless you are taking all honors, easy classes. There is no such thing as a 'Regulars' class at my school - it's either Honors or AP. The depressing part is that competition is so cutthroat and the teachers so strict that many students leave feeling cheated. Our school suffers from major grade deflation, so it's always an issue..</p>
<p>MW, they do indeed take high schools into consideration. At some private schools (such as mine), a regular class is at least as hard as a difficult honours at a local public school (one of best counties in the nation), honours is as hard as AP, and AP is over that. The fact that a student can not only keep up with that academically but that the student got into the school in the first place (in admissions processes very comparable to some college entrance) is taken very, very much into account. </p>
<p>Colleges will have an idea how hard your classes were. And they will take that into consideration!</p>
<p>"as a kid in a magnet highschool in Chicago."</p>
<p>lol, murkywater.</p>
<p>Well, I just have to add in my perspective from a good but probably non-competitive high school. I can accept/believe that at top private schools, like the one described, and magnet schools, the work probably is more than the average public school. BUT, us lowly public school kids are not necessarily lazy, easy class having losers. I see a decent amount of private school kids who total devalue the work that public school kids do....perhaps not coincidentally, those who do so usually don't have the greatest GPAs (possibly because of the difficulty of their classes...possibly) or the greatest test scores (not sure what the excuse is for this...). Please understand that I am not trying to flame you, Carpe Aeternum, or private school kids in general. I just have noticed, on this site and others, that there is a slightly nasty minority who (perhaps to elevate their own egos) really look down on public school kids. It's not easy to get a 4.0 unweighted GPA at my school, either. A few people have done it (not me, that's for sure), but it's not easy, and our courses <em>are</em> rigorous. It's hard to make that argument (public schools totally suck) stick when testing is in the top 1-2% and AP scores are great. We're not all bad! :) </p>
<p>As far as college admissions go, you definately have to be much closer to the top of your class if you are in a more average school than if you are in a super competitive private or magnet school--that much is true. I would think, though, that lower test scores from a kid from a top private/magnet school would be much harder to justify than from a kid from a more average public school.</p>
<p>Ad, I certainly didn't take that as a flame at all. :) I have been enrolled in nine schools since the beginning of my education, from all spectrums and all in one of the most competitive areas in the country. I can only assure you that my comments are from someone who has been to public school as well as to a prep school that required virtually no work. Notice, I didn't compare public schools to private schools- I compared my private school to public schools. My county's public school system is one of the top-rated in the country, and I can say with absolute certainty that my school is un comparably more difficult; again, as someone who has been there.</p>
<p>But I have noticed that when people call their private schools much more difficult than public schools, some public school kids take it as looking down on public school kids (which is how I read the comment in your post about the nasty minority). :) That is not what we are saying. The school is either academically more difficult, or it is not. And when people from my area from other private schools tell me theirs is so, so much more difficult, I am not offended at all, because it is a statement of fact.</p>
<p>But again, what it boils down to is that I compared my private school to public schools in my county, one of the top-ranked in the country. No where did I compare private schools in general to public schools in general, so unless your school is in my county, even if I was looking down on public school kids (and I'm not), it wouldn't be you.</p>
<p>I'd like to think that my school, which is public, is somewhat "on par" with the level of rigorous coursework as the two other major private, boarding schools in the area.</p>
<p>Sometimes, this does seem like the case, because of the AP classes we take, etc. </p>
<p>Then again, the acceptance stats for the private schools were WAY better than our school's for last year, which makes me wonder a little as to whether or not our school is "known" at all as intellectually challenging.</p>
<p>(At any rate, I try not to use the competitiveness of my school and the tough grading of the teachers as an excuse for my not-so-pretty averages. It's a little hard, though.)</p>
<p>uh oh...here comes an argument over money buying college</p>
<p>I agree with you though G-U-NOT, my parents pay upwards of 10 grand for my high school and I know that it is much harder to attain high grades at my school as opposed to at a public school, so it better count for something</p>
<p>When my parents were considering very competitive private (>$25 K /yr) vs average public high school for me when we moved here (MA), we decided to choose public h.s., because it'd be easier for me get a good GPA and class rank! I believe I am now a competitive applicant for IVYs and such (still waiting for RD from IVYs, but I am in at my safeties with big $$ aid) and I have had an enjoyable h.s. experience. My friends are all top rank holders in the class. We're so relaxed. We study together and visit prospective colleges together.<br>
It would have been a waste of money for me to go to a private h.s., not to speak of the struggles of being in an 'ultra-competitive', 'cut-throat' environment. Save that for college!</p>
<p>they do consider it.
I go to a very competetive public school, and i do know for a fact that it is considered in admission.</p>
<p>"Sometimes, this does seem like the case, because of the AP classes we take, etc."</p>
<p>Number of APs does not necessarily mean that the coursework is as "rigorous" or the students are particularly exceptional. I attend a private Catholic school that offers no AP classes, yet we have a reputation of being an exceptional school. Last year I decided to take two AP tests just to see if I could do it, and I got 4's on each with little effort, which I believe proves that just because a curriculum isn't "AP" doesn't mean it isn't exceptional. In addition I had a number of friends taking APs at the local public school (which is ranked in USNews, which only takes APS and honors into account, right?) but they all bombed their exams!</p>
<p>The number #1 student at my HS I dont think even had a 4.0. Top 10% probably got below 3.5. Thankfully I think colleges know this...</p>
<p>Competitive high schools, public or private, are indeed known by College Admissions and are given weight accordingly. In recent memory, two of CC's favorite LAC's decided to recruit in our neck of the woods - prior to this they had focussed on the eastern end of Pennsylvania (read "Philadelphia"). </p>
<p>They checked around and chose to visit our public HS, in addition to 1 other very competitive public and a competitive private HS. I spoke with one of the Regional Reps during his visit - he heard our HS was rigorous and produced achieving students who perform well in college. Point is - admissions considers the source.</p>
<p>Kyle, haha. Well, I love referencing myself. =)</p>
<p>I don't see why it would be harder to justify a grade in a competitive high school. It's way harder than my sister's highschool. I seriously talked to one of my brother's teachers, and they have so little homework it's horrifying. I really do hope that colleges understand that. There's so many people getting Bs in junior year, and part of it is because we're taking upwards of 5 APs. And the grade deflation.. how I hate it.. -_-; </p>
<p>Sometimes I wish I had gone to an easy school. I probably would've been valedictorian at my brother's school in all of 5 seconds. =P </p>
<p>Beantowngal, as to why I chose to be in a cutthroat environment: I like having challenges, not completely slacking my way through highschool. I have had the best education at my school, and not everyone from the surrounding neighborhood schools that accept just about everyone can attest to that. Plus, being surrounded by the best makes you work harder =D It is 100% worth it. </p>
<p>And by the way, my school is public. It's just the top highschool in the state (according to PSAE scores, AP scores, etc.) Just sayin'. Private isn't necessarily better! And there's a lot of private schools nearby that seriously pale in comparison to my school -- those parents' money probably doesn't count for much since it isn't selective. They accept everyone that applies & has money to burn.</p>
<p>This is really pretty easy for colleges to do just by looking at SAT scores in realtion to grades earned. They also can consider AP testing and scores in the mix.</p>
<p>of course it matters what school you go to. you can look at matriculation enough to put public high schools in your area into definite tiers. I can do this for Long Island</p>
<p>Tier 1: Great Neck North, Great Neck South, Jericho, Cold Spring Harbor
Tier 2: Ward Melville, Manhasset, South Side, Bellmore JFK, Plainview JFK
Tier 3: North Shore, Syosset, Garden City, Hewlett, Herricks
Tier 4: Commack, Smithtown(s), Northport, Massapequa</p>
<p>yell at me for these as i problem missed a few that shold be on this list, but anyway, I am sure that someone near the top of the class at these tier 1's (absolutely sure, i am friends with a lot of kids from these schools and they have much more ivy/elite success than we do) will do better than someone at a lower school, but all of these schools are solid schools and do decently well at ivies (2% of the class for the tier 4's i would say up till 10% or more for the top tier)</p>
<p>High school matters</p>
<p>Don't forget the number of national merit scholars that come out of the school too.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
... as to why I chose to be in a cutthroat environment: I like having challenges, not completely slacking my way through highschool.
[/Quote]
Being in a cut-throat environment and completely slacking off are two different scenarios. One has no bearing on another. I am not in a cut-throat environment, but I didn't slack off. Some people, self included, don't need external stress to do well. We should consider if we should be part of a long rat race (h.s, college, career) or a reasonable one (college, career). Learning has nothing to do with taking zillion APs. One can take regular courses and still learn the fundamentals well, which is what one should be doing in the high school.</p>
<p>I'm not sure if you understood this -- I was referring to myself when I said that I like having challenges and don't want to slack my way through. If I'm not being challenged, then I'm slacking, IMO. You may not agree with this, but I didn't direct it at others, or even specifically you. I was just offering my perspective on why people choose competitive highschools.</p>
<p>I don't consider challenging one's self to be a rat race, haha. I don't think people would appreciate being called players in a 'long rat race'. It discredits people who have challenged themselves to the limit in highschool. I think it's rather silly to just 'wait' until college to challenge one's self. <em>shrugs</em></p>
<p>"we decided to choose public h.s., because it'd be easier for me get a good GPA and class rank! I believe I am now a competitive applicant for IVYs and such (still waiting for RD from IVYs, but I am in at my safeties with big $$ aid) and I have had an enjoyable h.s. experience. My friends are all top rank holders in the class. We're so relaxed. We study together and visit prospective colleges together."</p>
<p>I think it's funny that you'd choose an easy school just to get a good GPA and class rank. =P I'm not making fun of you or anything, it's just that I haven't heard that a lot. I have had an enjoyable experience. I believe I'm a competitive applicant because I've done a lot of college level work and have been pushed to think. =)</p>
<p>Being challenged in highschool isn't a bad thing. I don't think enough schools 'challenge' students, and that is why fifth graders in Pakistan do Algebra while students in some schools in the U.S. are still doing decimals and fractions in sixth grade (personal experience in my grade school). </p>
<p>I really believe I have the best preparation for college =)</p>
<p>Why do you equate 'challenging one's self' to 'taking a zillion APs'? I take 5 APs, and I have to say that my APs are not my only challenging courses. The fact is, AP classes are generally the most interesting, complex and rewarding classes at my school! Even so, the honors courses are my school are super.. My World Studies class was one of my toughest classes freshman year, and it was only an Honors class. My teacher was absolutely amazing and pushed students to do challenging work. I can't thank him enough ^_^</p>
<p>I didn't say one <em>couldn't</em> take regular courses and learn the fundamentals. To me, doing just the bare minimum is boring. This may be different for people. </p>
<p>Whatever floats your boat ;-)</p>
<p>Adcoms do indeed know the competitive publics. In addition to SAT & AP scores which have been discussed before, they look at teh school's profile and judge gpa (grade inflation or none). And, some states, like Calif, publish an academic index (adjusted for socio-economics), which, for all intents and purposes, is a ranking of similar high schools.</p>