@OneOfEach - we applied ED - figured it was a long shot - but she did get in. The financial aid package is $125K - spread out over four years.
So the cost is still way over our price point so if we cannot afford it, they don’t hold you to early ED.
Regardless she does not want to go there. It was a “safety” school for her.
@Leigh22 -You would have to ask her that. It was her choice and it is a crappy safety school that we cannot afford. Any other questions or does anyone want to help out today with my initial post?
Why would she apply ED to Brown if she didn’t want to go there? One uses ED for a DREAM school, this makes absolutely no sense.
@2plustrio - Whew! Thank heavens! We don’t WANT her to go to BYU after being treated like this so she would never apply ( and never get in).
I disagree. Some people play dead and just keep taking hit after hit and other people stand up to the system and try to change it. I am the “stand up to the system” person.
I hope I have raised her to not roll over and play dead when she has worked a DECADE of her life for something and gets screwed out of it.
And again, on paper, we have done everything the “devout” mormon family could do from an application standpoint.
As my original post mentions, if “devout mormon families” are what the church is looking for, then how did the guy who has been a member for six months get in? No seminary, no church leadership, nothing?
Either way, if you cannot provide any constructive responses to my initial question, please feel free to not respond.
Wow.
I went to community college. So many people busted their butts and go to community college because they can’t afford anything else, and they are not second class citizens or less deserving than your daughter.
Your daughter doesn’t deserve anything more than any other kid who has worked their butts off and don’t get into their top choice. And the system works for many kids. Life isn’t going to be 100% fair.
And Brown is never a safety. She got in, which is great, but not a safety.
Brown is a crappy safety school? Its an elite Ivy, your daughter would get an amazing education there, better than BYU who doesn’t even want her. Don’t you want your DD to attend a college that also wants her? You can take your 10% tithe now and apply it to admission since you won’t need to pay your church anymore.
I have a close friend whose D20 applied to Brown ED as its been her dream school for years. She has higher stats, test scores and ECs than your DD and she was rejected. Rejections happen all the time. No one is guaranteed admission anywhere anymore. My friend’s DD was devastated for a few days but has moved on and is busy getting excited about the other amazing schools that she was accepted to.
Also, your assertion that your DD will be date raped at a frat party if she attends anywhere but BYU and that “most colleges now are just expensive day camps rife with sexual assaults and binge drinking” is ignorant and incredibly offensive.
@StanleyCup2018 - You would have to ask her that. It was her choice and a guy that she likes was applying there so I think that was the catalyst.
Again, it is a dream school for some kids, but not her.
There is no risk in applying ED as we speculated that the financial aid package wouldn’t be grea IF she got in (we can’t afford that school)
Either way, this does not help with my initial question.
Wow! I just read this entire thread. The OP is so darned angry. And I feel bad for her…but wow. I get @Connecticut814 being disappointed, but the level of anger and continued anger is concerning. And out of porportion. Lawsuits? My goodness…
And with that anger, OP, you are insulting people here on CC (who are tyring to comfort and advise) by slamming the schools they attended and that their children attend with YOUR view that they are all partiers and drug their classmates and are subpar people who attend subpar schools. Your view of every college and university in the world other than BYU is uninformed, immature, and insulting.
Please be careful not to also (unintentionally) insult teachers/administrators, friends, and neighbors in person (by saying their kid did not derve what s/he got and your kid did deserve it.)
In one post, you wrote “we” don’t want to go to a certain school. Guess what? “We” aren’t going to collge, you daughter is. You shouldn’t be calling schools, she should. And honestly, if you call BYU, your anger might do more damage than good for your daughter.
Life is not “fair” (someone define fair!) In the real world you don’t get everything you want or work for. In the real world, you deal with it, go to Plan B, you be resillient, you let go. Otherwise you become a perpetually angry, vengeful, and unhappy person.
I truly hope your posts are just vents and you are not speaking like this to people in the real world. Please, please listen to the advice you have received here (if you are going to just going to fire back at everyone’s advice (that you asked for) request the thread be closed).
And please talk with someone - a trusted friend or counselor - about your feelings. Your anger is not healthy. Best wishes to you.
It’s unfortunate that your D used her ED bullet at a school that was unaffordable…which you likely would have known had you done the NPC ahead of time.
Brown does not offer any merit based ‘scholarships’, they only offer need-based aid. Pulling out of the ED spot likely took a spot from another ED applicant that was deferred/denied.
Instead of spending time trying to get BYU to change their process, please focus on finding a school that is affordable for your D. There are many schools still accepting applications…what is her budget?
In terms of need-based aid Brown is among the most generous schools in the country…suggesting other need-based only schools may also not be affordable. If your D needs to merit hunt, a gap year might be necessary.
Posters can help find alternatives, if you are willing to listen.
@flyawayx2 - My statement is not “ignorant or offensive” I have SEEN this happen at college campuses. Turn on the news! Does the name Brock Turner ring a bell?
The culture of a school is important to us. She cannot marry a non- Mormon so how is she going to find a spouse at Brown? They have a very small LDS population. She also cannot date a non-mormon so what is her social life going to look like at a school like this?
This is a dream school for some people, but A. We cannot afford it - OR I would force her to consider it. B. SHE DOESN"T WANT TO GO THERE
Either way, this doesn’t help with my initial question and post as to how to change the system. That is the problem that is at hand.
@Lindagaf - I personally went to community college! I did so well that I got a scholarship for my four year and then got my masters!
BUT that is NOT what I busted my a** for - to get her into a great school system, pinch pennies etc so that she can go to our local community college? Um no.
Again, NONE of this helps with my original question. Does ANYONE want to take a stab at that today or are we going to just continue this banter?
Regarding your original question about how to change the admissions process, first you need to understand why some schools went to a more holistic approach in making admission decisions. Kids are so much more than grades or checkboxes. Schools were discriminating and not taking in a variety of students based on the old checkbox way of doing things that you want them to go back to.
Perhaps this will help you understand holistic admissions. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://professionals.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-holistic-review-he-admissions.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjmj9yj6OLnAhVK-qwKHR9zA3MQFjALegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2K1NayxQlWdHyM4WzBrYzA
@Mwfan1921 - This was our first child going to school. We really didn’t know what we were doing or research ED and perhaps should have looked into that more. We thought it was a long shot just we just threw her name in the hat, but I do agree that I wouldn’t want to take a spot away from another student.
I am happy to listen to advice from posters but the issue remains that she would have to attend a Mormon school. She can’t date a non-member or marry a non-member so we are kindof locked into the Utah area.
The schools out there are not great (although we applied to Utah State so that looks like that is going to have to be our selection - but again, she doesn’t want to go there which goes back to my intial post about how to change BYU’s system)
Oh and budget wise we want to be at about $15K / year (including housing etc) If she has to take loans for up to $5K we are okay with that.
Thanks for the help.
@2plustrio - i appreciate the information and I do know what holistic applications look like.
I have heard from many leaders in the church that this is a lottery system. I think they hide behind this “holistic process” veil to disguise what is going on here and I would really like to shed some light on that because it is wrong.
https://study.com/articles/colleges_with_large_mormon_populations.html
Any of those (last 3 on the list) a possibility?
I’m glad you are exploring the honors college option at the other schools that are affordable for your family. I think your daughter will be pleasantly surprised.
If BYU is still the end goal here for your D, you need a total reset of your attitude and to take a different tack with the school. I feel like you don’t trust your church to advocate for your child. I don’t understand why the guidance counselor can’t call to be sure that all materials were properly received. I also think it might be worth your D writing an appeal letter to the admissions office, without your input.
I do have a concern - IMO, it seems that there are a number of ethics violations with your D’s application. In addition to writing your own LoR, ED is binding. Why would your D have applied ED to Brown if BYU was her first choice? And does Brown’s ED rules even allow an early application to a private institution (they do for public schools but BYU is private)? Applying ED to Brown tells the world that Brown is the first choice, not BYU. That could have come across to BYU somewhere in the high school’s part of the application.
PS You are using the term “safety school” completely incorrectly. And Brown doesn’t give merit scholarships, only need based aid. For others applying in the future, run the NPC for each school on your list to be sure it’s affordable before applying binding ED anywhere. And don’t apply ED to a school that isn’t your first choice.
If you want to change the process of admissions at BYU, you’ll need to let go of your emotions (anger) and start thinking rationally of ways it might be possible to change it. This will take years, if it’s at all feasible. At this point, it isn’t going to help your oldest child. I think the honors program at Utah State may be your best option for the culture and price point you desire. I’m assuming she would be eligible for the highest level of scholarship (full tuition for 4 years). Hopefully, you and she can get excited about this option. If not, people here can suggest other options, but if a predominantly Mormon student population is a necessity, the options are limited, especially for fall 2020 admission. The University of Utah and its out of state scholarships may be a possibility if your daughter is willing to take a gap year.
Church leaders aren’t experts on higher education.
So BYU gets parents angry for discriminating against geographic location, gender, area of study and having a checkbox system. Or they make parents angry by having a holistic review or “lottery process”. Whether you like it or not, “lottery” is more fair to all applicants. Sadly your daughter was on the losing end of the ticket along with thousands of other applicants. Schools only have so much space, they can’t accept everyone.
Yet, the result was that another applicant did lose out on that ED spot that your D got but ultimately declined. Correct…she has declined the spot?
This information helps.
If your D doesn’t want to attend one of the other BYU campuses, she basically needs a merit scholarship for full tuition (room/board, books, and fees are typically between $10K-$15K)…that is unlikely to happen at this late date for 2020/21.
Is Utah State affordable? Have you considered U Utah?
If you want your D to ultimately still be able to transfer to BYU, or take a GAP year and re-apply next year, please do not be the reason that is off the table for her. And…that’s exactly what will happen if you have more negative interactions with staffers or pursue legal action.
Well, we are trying to help.
Your kid didn’t get in. So what? They didn’t want her and you are pissed off. What are you going to do when she doesn’t get the job? Sue the company who doesn’t want her? Your kid busted her a__ for four years like so many other kids. She learned good skills and got into Brown for Pete’s sake. I’d hardly call that worth nothing. She clearly has what it takes to succeed, but it’s not going to be at BYU.
BYU is under no obligation to explain why she didn’t get in. The company that doesn’t hire her won’t be obliged to do that either. Maybe the recs not written by teachers didn’t help. And so what if an MIT prof reviewed her essay? Does the MIT prof work in BYU admissions?
OP is apparently looking for constructive advice. So again, here it is: get over it. Life isn’t fair. And save your money because no lawyer would pursue this matter as a case of discrimination.